I agree with rrjoker. I don't think the provider is relevant-just what the fee is for.

What about the Tradeoff Table...do I understand correctly that all we have to do is complete the first column unless you have a no-cost loan and then you would need to complete the other two columns...is this correct?

The first column should be completed (ignore the language right above it) The other two columns are optional.

The most common use of these tables is to show the same loans with points, no points, and with a YSP credit (IMHO)

But the FAQ's say an in house appraiser fee is an origination fee.See FAQ #8 under HUD-1 800 Series. What am I missing?

What if we find out during underwriting the borrower's employer charges for a verification of employment or the bank charges for a verfication of deposit? This comes up periodically so we would not normally disclose it on our GFE. It wouldn't be a changed circumstance, would it? How would we handle this?

Another question - The disclosure for an extended closing on a construction loan. That is addressed in the FAQ's under the construction loan section. Is that only for construction loans? My initial understanding is that it was for ANY loan closing more than 60 days out. Am I wrong?

I am getting so confused!

I don't think this is a changed circumstance. If you didn't disclose on your GFE, it will be a cost that can still go on your HUD-1/1A, but it will count toward your 10% tolerance.


I don't believe this is for ANY loan. Only "new home purchases where settlement is anticipated to occur more than 60 calendar days from the time a GFE is provided" . IOW, construction loans followed by permanent financing.


So am I, but I'm mostly confused trying to follow all of the various questions running in this thread!

It must be for a newly constructed or to-be-constructed home.

From the 11-19-09 FAQs:

2) Q: For a loan originator to issue the separate disclosure to the GFE allowing a loan originator to revise the GFE at any time up to 60 days before settlement, must the new home be constructed specifically for the borrower or will any newly constructed home previously not occupied be eligible?
A: A new home purchase is the purchase of a home either to be constructed or under construction. In a transaction involving a new home purchase, if it is anticipated that settlement will not occur for more than 60 days after the GFE is provided, then a loan originator may provide a separate disclosure to the GFE that clearly states that the loan originator may revise the GFE at any time up to 60 days before settlement.
As an example of a means to determine if the home is under construction: if a use and occupancy permit has been issued for the home prior to the issuance of the GFE, then the home is not considered to be under construction and the transaction would not be a new home purchase for the purposes of 24 CFR § 3500.7(f)(6).

3500.7(f)(6) refers specifically to new home purchases, not any purchase transaction.

You're not missing anything. In-house appraisals are "origination charges" when performed by the loan originator. That is the problem. If you don't know who will do the appraisal, you won't know where to put the fee on the GFE.

8) Q: If the loan originator performs loan origination services typically performed by a third-party for the appraisal, credit report and/or flood certificate, are the charges for these services listed in Lines 804 thru 807 or are the charges included in the loan originator‘s charge in Line 801 on the HUD-1?

A: Charges for the appraisal, credit report and/or flood certificate performed by the loan originator in a transaction must be included in the loan originator‘s charge listed in Line 801 [origination charge] on the HUD-1.

We have the same issue with the Settlement Fee. We do most of our own closings but if we get the title policy and it looks really hairy, we let the title company do the closing. We have decided to list the fee in 801 (that is were it would be if we did the closing) AND on 1102 (just incase the TC ends up doing the closing). The cost will be lower in one area or the other once we know who will be doing the closing. With the new requirement we have no choice but to over state one of these fees because we do not plan on "eating" any fees.

The bank has to pay a mortgage release fee to their county but because state law does not permit the bank to charge the fee at origination (and they can't include it at payoff due to a system limitation) it was determined that the bank would just eat the fee. Since the fee is one that is required but will never be charged to the borrower, do we still disclose this as a credit on the GFE and would it in fact be a POC item on the HUD settlement statement? Thank you.

Jan94...we discussed this very same issue. I know of nothing in our state law prohibiting it...but I have a problem with it for this reason...

WE only pay it if WE release it...if someone refi's somewhere else, it's collected and paid with that closing...so, we decided to discontinue the fee. I don't consider it "required". It's something, that if charged down the road, we will just pay it. My problem with the way it actually works is it could be construed as an "unearned fee".

right, wrong, or indifferent, that was our "executive" decision.

That does cause a prediciment, doesn't it! I guess I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it because we don't charge for in-house evals. (We don't do full blown appraisals in-house)...sorry for my bad call!

You could possibly show it both places (I know, that's overstating, but dang!) and then explain it to the borrower?

I am SO GLAD to see I'm not alone!!!!

My bad as well-same reason as RR...another unintended consequence of the change-not knowing up front who will provide a service, so need to double dip....

WHATS WRONG WITH THE CURRENT GFE???? Stoopid HUD. (sorry for the tantrum)

I think this thread has about run it's course. There are so many question interspersed, it is hard to follow one issue from beginning to end and some questions just get lost in the shuffle.

I still find this single thread good. Because there still remain so many questions, I think it might be harder to try and single them out before they get lost in "history".

It also makes me stay "fresh" on this topic, especially when I see something that does not appear to be right. Probably most of my direct questions to HUD have been a result of that very thing.

Agree with RLCarey this thread is too long and hard to follow. I sugget BOL consider breaking it down into smaller segments.
This could be broken up into something like:
1) Page 1 GFE
2) GFE Page 2 Section A
3) GFE Page 2 Lines 3,4, 5
4) GFE Page 2 Lines 6-11
5) GFE Page 3
6) 2010 RESPA Other

Just one person's humble opinion.

BOL provides a great service and we are all indebted for the opportunity to learn and excahnge ideas on this board.

Regards,

As soon as I think I understand, I read more and become less and less confident.

If we do not know who is paying for the survey or pest we can list on the good faith and they will either be showed on the HUD as a buyers cost or a credit to the borrower depending on who is paying, correct?

Will it be okay to list ALL fees pertaining to the loan if we do not know who will be paying. We will not have a contract at that time from the real estate agent?

All the title companies have different closing fees and charges. Yesterday I had one quote me $150.00 to close a loan and another quote me $350.00 to close the same loan. How are we going to know what charges unless we know at the GFE time who will be closing the loan? I think I read in this thread that we cannot produce our required list until after the GFE when the customer proceeds with the loan. Some title companies have scann, copy, and junk fees. How are we to know if we do not know where they will be closing? What is every one else doing?

How am I going to know if there will be HOA dues if I do not have a contract telling me this? I just do not now how to determine what the fees will be.

If you do something like that...I have a feeling it needs to be a separate forum!

Correct.

Yes.

I would disclose the highest fee possible if you don't know at the time of the GFE.

You provide the "recommended list" AT the time you provide the GFE.

HOA dues are not something you require so they are not listed on the GFE.

David,

We do require insurance which is paid through the HOA, so we still do not need to show them? Sometimes the dues are collected at closing if they are due. Sometimes they are split between the buyer and the seller.

Upon request, I broke the new RESPA out into individual threads according to application dates. This thread has gotten as cumbersome as it's topic. But you only have to search one thread. Splitting it up would make it harder to follow each offshoot so I'm not going to facilitate it. Besides, there's only three weeks left. Let's just hang in there with this one.

If the insurance is paid through the HOA, then I guess you'll have to disclose it - if you know it. If you don't know this, I think this would qualify as a changed circumstance.

David,

Do you agree that we do have to give a quote on a purchase for Owners' Title insurance even though we do not require it?

What if you never know it? HOA dues cover more than just the insurance. Besides the insurance premium is usually prorated by number and size of units IF it's done at all.

We don't normally show dues or an amount for the blanket policy on our HUD. But it is a condition of the loan to have a copy of the blanket policy in file. Am I going to have to reflect that blanket as POC on my HUD or GFE in 2010?