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#185241 - 04/30/04 03:43 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Why not take on the National Endowment for the Arts and all the rest of government's misspendings?
I don't know why you do not.
The reason I didn't mention those is because it didn't (a) come up, (b) get a gentle teasing from yours truly, which was (c) subsequently called "mean-spirited" by someone that was afraid to put their username on their comment.
But if your point is that these expenditures are also unconstitutional (and therefore "illegal"), you are correct.
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#185243 - 04/30/04 04:07 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Nope that's not my comment. My naive take on all of this is that our government and all that it generates (spending included)is you and me.
The fact that we have a democratic form of government too often overshadows the more important fact that we are a republic.
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Bottom line, you don't like something, work to change it. And yes, my money IS where my mouth is. I've severed in my Town's government for the last 7 years.
Good. But that has nothing to do with whether tax $$ for public broadcasting is right or wrong.
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#185245 - 04/30/04 04:33 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Which brings us full circle. Whether it's 'right' or 'wrong' is an opinion which, thanks to our form of government, you get to express!
Actually, I should have said that your public service has nothing to do with whether tax $$ for public broadcasting is "legal or illegal".
But just the same, right and wrong are not determined by your or my opinion. You may have the opinion that beating a child is right, but that does not make it so. (God help us if we have to have the "truth" debate again.)
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#185246 - 04/30/04 04:45 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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jokerman, with all of your near-hate speech, I can't wait to get home this evening and sit down with a chilled glass of Mouton Cadet and watch the NewsHour on my local NPR affiliate in order to hear the honest take on the news -- without all of the Hannity-type spin factor.
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#185247 - 04/30/04 04:47 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Power Poster
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,455
The Pennant Race
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As I read the document providing for the general welfare of the United States is one of the specific powers, along with along with regulating commerce, coining money, and establishing post offices. If you can levy taxes to provide for it, you have to have the power to legislate it.
But this has been the fundamental argument of strict constructionism down through the years. There are two schools of thought. The first is, if it isn't permitted, it's forbidden. The second is, if it isn't forbidden, it's permitted.
The truth is that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are not consistently developed and presented. They employ some of both philosophies. In that sense, as a combined document, they are a camel.
As another example, strict constuctionism would seem to indicate that our current method of budgeting for defense is unconstitutional, since our five-year allocation cycle exceeds the 2 years permitted under Article I, Section 8.
To the Anonymous whose post appears directly above this one: Jokers comments are not even close to being hate speech. They are strongly felt opinions based on analysis. I dont happen to agree with the analysis, but he has done a good job of keeping personality out of his argument. Your characterization of his statements as such is incorrect and offensive. On top of that, it's poor argumentation.
I will be listening to NPR radio tonight on the way home from work this evening. I will agree with some of what I hear. I will disagree with other things. I do happen to think that while slanted toward a liberal point of view with which I frequently disagree, NPR does a much better job than commercial news of trying to present both sides of an issue. That characterization includes Fox News along with CNN, CBS, etc. Which is why I believe that spending public money on it provides for the general welfare of the United States.
Last edited by pbrinker; 04/30/04 04:57 PM.
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#185249 - 04/30/04 05:03 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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General welfare is mentioned in the same breath as "provide for the common defence" (both are purposes for the taxation authorized in clause 1 of Section 8) and yet, the document spells out the specific powers that Congress can act under in order to provide that defense (clauses 11 through 16). Similarly, specific powers are authorized to provide for the general welfare (clauses 3 through 10):
1. regulating commerce
2. naturalization
3. coin money
4. punish counterfeiters
5. post offices and roads
6. patents and copyrights
7. establish a court system
8. outlaw piracy
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#185250 - 04/30/04 05:11 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
jokerman, with all of your near-hate speech, I can't wait to get home this evening and sit down with a chilled glass of Mouton Cadet and watch the NewsHour on my local NPR affiliate in order to hear the honest take on the news -- without all of the Hannity-type spin factor.
You know, I really couldn't be more tired of being accused of hate speech every time I disagree with a (anonymous) liberal political opinion. This isn't the first time that an anonymous cheap-shot artist has slung this mud at me in this forum. Consider the source.
pbrinker, I appreciate your comments and the fact that you and I can have a reasonable discussion.
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#185251 - 04/30/04 05:29 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,988
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
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The attack on Jokerman's opinion reminds me of the attack news shows on the "commerical" stations that I strive to avoid. Everyone sits down, screaming at each other, unable to engage in civil discourse of the issue at hand - the very type of show the writer was disparaging. I do enjoy Public TV - Newshour especially. They appear to invite intelligent, well-informed individuals to the table to discuss both sides of the issue in a non-WWF manner. I support them independently of tax dollars voluntarily every year. Most CPB stations I know of are located on college campuses where students studying journalism and broadcasting can learn the business. They serve a definite purpose in our society and I believe they have enough of a listener/viewer base to support themselves if properly marketed. The question being discussed is whether or not the government should support them.
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My Opinion Only.
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#185252 - 04/30/04 05:43 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,415
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Quote:
Actually, I should have said that your public service has nothing to do with whether tax $$ for public broadcasting is "legal or illegal".
ok, I couldn't stay away and I agree with the "legal or illegal" part as this thread's debate topic.
My public service comes into play because I didn't agree with things my government did so I chose to do more than debate or complain. That's the point to me.
And lastly, while parts of this thread have been vehement, I think the hate-speech references were overstated at the very least. Facts, loud or soft, are the key. Not attacks on the person presenting them.
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#185253 - 04/30/04 05:56 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,678
United States
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I didn't know you could watch NPR. That's a new one.
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#185254 - 04/30/04 06:00 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I do enjoy Public TV - Newshour especially. They appear to invite intelligent, well-informed individuals to the table to discuss both sides of the issue ...
And this is why so many NPR/CPB watchers like John Kerry: He is able to discuss and address both sides of an issue.
Can't we all just get along?
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#185255 - 04/30/04 06:28 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
The question being discussed is whether or not the government should support them.
Absolutely, although I would put a finer point on it and say that my problem is with the federal government's expenditures.
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#185256 - 04/30/04 06:35 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
this is why so many NPR/CPB watchers like John Kerry: He is able to discuss and address both sides of an issue.
Not to mention, he's probably voted on both sides of an issue, too!
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#185257 - 04/30/04 06:38 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
I do enjoy Public TV - Newshour especially. They appear to invite intelligent, well-informed individuals to the table to discuss both sides of the issue ...
And this is why so many NPR/CPB watchers like John Kerry: He is able to discuss and address both sides of an issue.
Can't we all just get along?
He's able to do this because he takes both sides of an issue. Just settle on one already John!
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#185258 - 04/30/04 06:40 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Dang Jokerman, you beat me.
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#185259 - 04/30/04 06:42 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Dang Jokerman, you beat me.
Sorry, couldn't resist. It was a hanging curveball. 
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#185261 - 04/30/04 08:13 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Power Poster
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,153
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I probably should not bring this up, but the Anonymous poster has brought to this discussion what a lot of liberals do when faced with an argument. They name-call. Now, don't get your dander up if you are a liberal. I am not talking about all liberals. I am talking about a faction that would rather call you a hate-monger, a bigot, stupid, etc... than to have a healthy discourse on the issue.
I am sure that this also happens on the conservative side, but I don't see it as much. The conservative talk show hosts may do this, but I do not see that many conservative private citizens resorting to such name-calling.
There is talk that Bob Edwards got fired because of a commencement speech he gave last year in which he harshly criticized the Bush administration. Bob, haven't you learned that you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. I thought his job was that as a neutral newsreader, not as a OP/ED liberal. The problem with the commencement address is that Bob lost his appearance of objectivity. All newscasters should be objective or at least attempt to be. Bob stepped over the line and the administration that subsidizes his job probably did not like it. That's the way it goes. Wouldn't any of us expect to be fired if we openly and publicly gave a scathing criticism of those who hold our jobs in their hands?
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#185263 - 04/30/04 08:26 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Diamond Poster
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,373
Austin, TX
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Quote:
Kerry will get the NPR vote because most of them wish they were Europeans.
Well, I listen to NPR and I don't wish that I was European.
Well, okay, maybe Swedish. 'Cuz Scandanavian women are hot, yo.
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#185265 - 04/30/04 08:33 PM
Re: "Morning Edition" - NPR
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, and I agree with Huddie - liberals resort to name-calling far too often. It makes me ashamed to have convince people that being a liberal doesn't mean that I call George Bush a fascist.
As for John Kerry, well, I'm not happy that he's my only option this time around. He's the kind of guy that gives the Dems a bad name, regardless of actual political beliefs - a waffler is a waffler on either side of the line.
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AND we still get to hear both sides of the issue and make up our own minds. 
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