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#2014143 - 05/14/15 06:38 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Define "deflate" and "is" please
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#2014171 - 05/14/15 07:27 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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And of course the ball boy was known as the "deflator" in emails because he had lost sooooooooooo much weight, yeah right.....
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#2014320 - 05/15/15 02:50 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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http://wellsreportcontext.com/Some of this makes sense. Some of it is just dumb (like the "deflator" being related to losing weight). At the end of the day, I don't know if they manipulated air pressure or not. I've heard good, compelling arguments on both sides. I get that many people, who either already believe the Patriots are a pathologically cheating organization, or have only heard one side of the legitimate arguments, will think it's plain that they cheated here. As someone who wants to believe that they didn't cheat, even I have doubts, so I get why so many are adamant that they did. But I do think if you had a jury trying this, with a standard of preponderance of evidence, I think you'd wind up with a jury deadlocked at 10 - 2 or 9 - 3 for conviction.
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#2014325 - 05/15/15 02:56 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Both reports would make more sense if they were not written by lawyers.
but at least brady is going to get a fair and impartial judge of this.
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#2014335 - 05/15/15 03:10 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Minus the fact that Goodell is presiding over the appeal. That doesn't seem very fair or impartial.
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#2014339 - 05/15/15 03:11 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Why?
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#2014346 - 05/15/15 03:17 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Because Goodell has way too much involvement in the whole thing, which means it would be rather difficult for him to remove himself and be impartial.
He was the one who hired the independent investigator, Wells, and is now being asked to validate the work. So if he comes out and says that Wells' information is no good or inconslusive, he looks like a fool for hiring him, which there's no way he'll do.
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#2014351 - 05/15/15 03:20 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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That is right there is no way that Goodall will add any time to the suspension.
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#2014354 - 05/15/15 03:25 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Just means that after Goodell upholds the suspension, Brady and his legal team will be taking the NFL to court (ala Jonathan Vilma and other players with the Saints bounty cheating). I suspect the Wells report will be shredded in court by Brady's team as it has absolutely no credible evidence that Brady knew or directed any effort to reduce PSI below 12.5.
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#2014357 - 05/15/15 03:32 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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If it does go to court the NFL can subpoena the phone/e-mail records that they were unable to obtain.
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#2014369 - 05/15/15 03:52 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Just speculation here but I heard that the reason that the phone/email records weren't given to Wells due to his initial confrontation with Brady/Yee in which he was very accusatory, saying things to the nature of "I know you're guilty, I know you did it". Yee reacted to this by telling Wells "well it looks like you already have your mind made up", and instructed Brady to not turn over anything.
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#2014392 - 05/15/15 04:54 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
RVFlyboy
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http://wellsreportcontext.com/Some of this makes sense. Some of it is just dumb (like the "deflator" being related to losing weight). At the end of the day, I don't know if they manipulated air pressure or not. I've heard good, compelling arguments on both sides. I get that many people, who either already believe the Patriots are a pathologically cheating organization, or have only heard one side of the legitimate arguments, will think it's plain that they cheated here. As someone who wants to believe that they didn't cheat, even I have doubts, so I get why so many are adamant that they did. But I do think if you had a jury trying this, with a standard of preponderance of evidence, I think you'd wind up with a jury deadlocked at 10 - 2 or 9 - 3 for conviction. I am not sure I believe that unless the jury has 2 or 3 members who are from Boston. While I admit that I am bias and that I do believe that Belichek and Brady are both cheaters, I find this case compelling. You get the person in question giving compensation to someone, and that person knows he likes flat balls. He also refuses to cooperate and texts really suggest that he asked for them. I think it is a 12-0.
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#2014401 - 05/15/15 05:15 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Lets be fare about this he is incent/Guilty because (insert name) is a fan of Patriots/Some other non-cheating team.
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#2014409 - 05/15/15 05:24 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
RVFlyboy
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
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I get that many people, who either already believe the Patriots are a pathologically cheating organization, or have only heard one side of the legitimate arguments, will think it's plain that they cheated here. do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes do I think they cheated here? - yes one does not sway the other...each stands on their own
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#2014418 - 05/15/15 05:45 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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I blame Russell Wilson for passing on the 1 yard line. If he hands the ball off to Marshawn this issue would be dead. Darnit Russell!!!
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#2014524 - 05/15/15 09:02 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever?
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#2014530 - 05/15/15 09:13 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
RVFlyboy
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
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do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes So do the Saints. not sure I would call one time - that was overturned on appeal - a history...but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out
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#2014531 - 05/15/15 09:15 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
RVFlyboy
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do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever? Jets and Dolphins? Cheaters usually win a few games. 
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#2014533 - 05/15/15 09:18 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes So do the Saints. not sure I would call one time - that was overturned on appeal - a history...but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out Actually even if the did what they were accused (not overturned) of it most likely would have been battery which is illegal but not necessary cheating. (Not a Saints fan)
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#2014542 - 05/15/15 09:34 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes So do the Saints. not sure I would call one time - that was overturned on appeal - a history...but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out Just because the punishment was overturned doesn't mean the guilt was overturned. Just like you would probably say that if Brady's punishment is overturned doesn't mean he's not guilty.
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#2014543 - 05/15/15 09:36 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
edAudit
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do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever? Jets and Dolphins? Cheaters usually win a few games. Jets - tampering with Revis - we'll see whether that produces any wins. Dolphins - tampering with Don Shula while he was under contract to the Baltimore Colts - seem to remember something about a perfect season shortly after that.
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#2014545 - 05/15/15 09:42 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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hmm a spoken word (Revis was going anyway, we all know that and the Pats tech. tampered to get him in the first place)or letting air out of a football which is cheating hmmmm
I did not know there was football prior to Shula coming to the dolphins.
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#2014556 - 05/15/15 11:10 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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So, Ed, you'll have to help me break it down. Which rules violations are cheating and which are just to be blown off? Or is the key just whether the Patriots are involved or not?
And how did the Patriots tamper to get Revis in the first place? That's news to me. He was a free agent after his one year contract in Tampa.
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#2014571 - 05/16/15 10:16 PM
Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)
HappyGilmore
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Bad memory
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Hours after leaving tampa he signed with the pats not even enough time for him to contact his to Contact his atty.
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