Goodness, I'm not sure I am even spelling it right.

We have a customer wishing to open an account (checking). He is claiming that he is a sovereign citizen (has returned his SS card to the government). My branch is asking if we open such accounts.

Now, in the past, I have told them when a customer refuses to give the social security number because of "religious" beliefs, we do not open the account. This is where "backing" comes in. The bank president agreed, however, the regional president overrode my decision. The account was opened and nothing came of it.<P>Sounds like I should let them make their own decisions...

But for the sake of ....whatever...

Are there such things and how do you handle this?

I would think that you probably have somewhat of a "know your customer" policy in place as well as procedures to follow for identification. Also, Bank Secrecy puts certain requirements in place to obtain social security number.

I would have the same advice as you --don't open the account without the proper tax identification number.

As a soveriegn citizen, doesn't he question the government's constitutional right to print and distribute worthless paper money and impose income tax on it? Funny these people still have a need for FDIC insured banking accounts. I would steer clear of individuals making such claims. Next thing you know he will be depositing checks draw on his own soveriegn bank into your bank.

What timing. I was reading some old Q&As on the ABA web site this morning and one of the questions was about this same topic. I have copied the information (from an April 2001 Q&A)below.

Social Security Number Required:

Q.If a potential customer refuses to divulge their social security number, is the bank required to open the account?

A. No. According to: “FDIC-LRRA -- Department Of The Treasury Instructions Relating To Taxpayer Identification Numbers…

With respect to each deposit or share account opened after June 30, 1972, by a person residing or doing business in the United States or a citizen of the United States, each bank, savings and loan association, building and loan association, credit union, or broker or dealer in securities must, within 45 days from the date the account is opened, secure and maintain a record of the taxpayer identification number of the person maintaining the account.

For individuals, the taxpayer identification number is his social security number. For corporations, partnerships, and other entities it is the IRS employer identification number…” To be a bank’s established customer, a social security number must be on file (31 CFR.11 (l)). Also see 31CFR 103.28, 33, and 34 of the Bank Secrecy Act.
In addition to the above, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) requires a bank to solicit the Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) at the opening of an account and provided by use of the Form W-9. If the depositor cannot provide a TIN at the opening of an account, the bank should again request the TIN in writing at the end of thirty days, and again in writing at the end of the calendar year. Records of this activity should be retained to verify the bank’s actions and the depositor’s absence of cooperation. This rule is not the rule for backup withholding.

Not sure if this helps since the account is already opened.

I also agree that there are BSA issues along with the above mentioned IRS issues.

Beware! We had one such individual. Can't divulge too many specifics, but do fraudulent conversion of deposit accounts, willful destruction of loan collateral, and environmental pollution of bank employee's property give you pause?

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Forgot to mention, the individual had no permanent address, being a sovereign individual, so there would be compliance issues, as well (periodic statements, notice of changes, etc.)

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Well, I have learned 2 important things....

Others have heard of such requests and take the same position as I do.

And I learned how to spell sovereign.......

Thanks,

Here's another little twist. We have an existing customer on social security income who became a sovereign citizen and wanted his social security number removed from his account. We told him our policy was to have a social on all accounts, and he went away for the time being. Thought it was interesting, while he was disclaiming his citizenship he was still willing to let the federal government support him.

I think if we worked in banks in Pennsylvania or Ohio, we would be more likely to hear of persons who are legitimately without social security numbers. I believe that the Amish have been exempted from the general requirement to participate in the SS system, based on their religious beliefs.

John,
I live in the heart of Amish/Mennonite country. In general, the Amish and Old Order Mennonites don't bother with banks, and certainly don't accept SS payments. Our sovereign citizen, however, was (still is) dangerous. I'm not saying all are, but ours went way beyond protesting the federal government's overreaching. Zealotry is one thing, irrational fanaticism is another.

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I was curious about the environmental pollution thing! Just kidding!'

Dolly

You may be interested in an item I found in the U S Treasury web site entitled " The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments" The publication covers many of the arguments that we hear from such persons or groups.

Disclaiming citizenship??!!! Why don't these people just go live somewhere else then. Look at all the poor people in other countries that would do anything to get to live in our country. I've got an idea---why don't those parties just trade places!
The bank should stick to it's policies and follow IRS and Bank Secrecy rules --- if these people want to do business with us then they can abide with our rules and the rules our government has imposed on us. Otherwise, go bank in some another country! SORRY, that's just my opinion and beleive me, I'm not shy in stating my opinions.

This also sounds like a clever way to try and avoide the S.S. data match system for child support payments.

Complyguy, my institution is facing a similar situation with a customer claiming religious persecution in response to our TIN requirement. He doesn't say what his religion is, but given his use of a computer to craft his letter and the vaguely threatening nature of it, I would guess he is not Amish! This guy is actually complaining to a government agency about this, despite his repudiation of US Citizenship! If you (complyguy) are still on the system, could you send me an email (tomj0908@hotmail.com)? Would like to get some information about your situation, to the extent you can share. Thanks.

Please see the private message I sent to you.

Banks CAN have a procedure that says we won't open an account for an individual that does not want to provide a SSN.

Politely tell the individual that YOUR bank requires this information for various regulatory reasons (BSA, Interest Reporting, Data Match etc.). Suggest they try another bank.

Do we need signs that say "We can refuse service to anyone?" My point is that we are not required to open an account for every person that walks through our doors. There is no dicrimination issue here.

For futher information about the "Sovereign Citizen" movement, do a search on that term on Google. Here's one of the more informative links you'll find: Sovereign Citizens

You can also see the discussion "Without Prejudice" in Operations.

There are a number of these folks in Texas prisons--they were Republic of Texas members. Lots of false liens and lawsuits filed. Claims that the sovereign Republic of Texas (Yes, Texas was actually a sovereign nation at one time) was not constitutionally annexed into the U.S. back in the 1800s. Oh, they also like guns, lots of them (not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that).

As we say here in Texas: "These folks are one enchilada short of a combo plate."

The priacy act of 1975 states that a sovern citizen does have the right to open a non-intrust bearring account. This has nothing to do with US citizens as they are very different things. If the bank would have denied the account the sovern citizen could have sued you presonally and the bank for a minumn of $1000.00 plus attorny's fees. Know the law people.

1) Use "spell check" and
2) Read this.

I really liked that "know the law" thing.

"knothead" - good choice

So here I find myself researching the claims of sovereign citizens. It came to my attention this morning we opened an account for such an individual back in 1994 and have never obtained a SS # from him - or his brother. They listed him as a foreign non-resident in our core system I presume to get rid of whatever alerts appear on the "Missing TIN" report. In speaking to the young teller that alerted me, turns out he's also a creep that has her scared to death and she hides in the back when he comes in. I'm rather heated that the branch president didn't close his account immediately for that one fact … but I digress. In doing my due diligence, I'm curious what others have done upon discovery of an already existing situation like this? Thanks so much for any insight!

Close the account and move on.