edge of town

Does that award have anything to do with the Rambo movie?

Rude

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I’d say that the BOL consensus on this subject/thread is clear, no SAR report, except at your bank in MD.

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This one was even pointed out by MichelleM.

Defensive

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Are you some sort of knight in shining armor? From Leslie's posts it appears that she can take care of herself.

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This is how I observed it.

If I'm not mistaken I think others may have taken it the same way.

Thanks Kara. People should not be upset. Posters should give a little more consideration to what they post as a position on any issue and be able to handle a challenge.

It’s possible that other posters or people just looking at threads will take a stated position and turn it into fact, something like “you cannot put cash in a safe deposit box” which, as Andy verified, is a myth, simply not true but is thought of as true by more than a few bankers.

Perhaps my attempts at pushing the envelope, logic wise, made for unhappy campers, but we should be able to sort out the facts, an application of the facts to the real world and come up with the truth of the matter. It’s a debate, not personal.

O.K., but what is not true about either statement? Are you saying rude, but true? Or true but rude of you to say it?

Also, are you saying that I'm rude and defensive, e.g. offensive and defensive? Are you also a knight?

Grist- Now that make perfect sense. When you put it that way I don't think anyone would have a problem. But the way you stated it before it looks like a personal attack. The disadvantage of computer communication is that we can't see your expressions or hear your tone of voice.

Your last post was well said.

except at your bank in MD

It's a fact and facts are simply real, not personal, as reality has no feeling.

Is this not fun, or what?

Grist - You input on BOL has at many times been invaluable and I realized most if not all your posts have been factual (frivolity aside), but somes of you post come across as throwing a fact in someone face. I think that's what gets you strong responses, not that your post wasn't factual.

I like strong responses. They make life just a little more interesting. First I try facts, next logic, and finally I push the envelope to make a point. Once again, reality has no feeling, so let's not fool yourselves into thinking that a post by someone that you (or other posters) do not know deserves any reaction at a feeling level. My posts are strictly business or the interpretation of a business issue, not personal.

First of all, thanks to all who have defended not only me, but also the integrity of this forum. When people are allowed to make personal attacks on others, and those attacks go unchallenged, the abuse continues. This is not the first time I have been the recipient of Grist’s pointed and cutting remarks, and I am not alone. Hopefully the powers that be on BOL will rectify this matter - but regardless, I will not allow myself to waste any more precious time or energy being drawn into these ridiculous wars of words, and neither should any of you.

I enjoy a challenge as much as the next guy. I have never set myself up as a guru or as being any more knowledgeable than anyone else on this site. I try to give thoughtful, technically correct answers to questions, and have made mistakes. I try to help others as much as they have helped me. I endeavor to ask well thought out and researched questions – but I also understand that there are those who have not been in the industry that long, and may not know or understand how to find an answer. I think posters like Andy, Richard, Lucy, Mary Beth, Bonnie, Michelle, DPersful (and many others) are excellent role models in that I have never seen any of them EVER disparage anyone else even though they may disagree. That is what makes BOL a great resource.

As far as Grist is concerned, he is welcome to disagree, but often his remarks serve no purpose except to insult and degrade. He calls it “pushing the envelope” - done under a cloak of anonymity, I think it is a cowardly way to attack others and take some kind of perverse pleasure in their humiliation. Reality may not have feelings, but people do. The mere fact that two pages of this post have now been dedicated solely to others defending me and to him defending himself should be a clear indication that this is a waste of everyone’s time, and that remarks such as his are not appreciated. I truly believe that he is an intelligent person with a great deal to offer, but this personal stuff has got to stop. In the future (or as long as he is permitted access to this forum) I just plan to ignore him. Life is too short and this forum means too much to me to let someone like him ruin it.

Disagreement relative to your position on issues does not rise to the cited level, unless you are being overly sensitive. Perhaps you don’t like to be challenged, but posting an opinion, for example to this question, that is supported by not one additional poster, sets you up for a challenge and I’m here to challenge your position as I have done in the past. Therefore, you should be thanking me for taking the time to show you the light. It’s not personal, it’s strictly business as we all want the best information disseminated on this site.

Would you not say, given all the responses to the original question, that your position is controversial? I’d say it is and therefore a spirited challenge is the natural result.

Hopefully the powers that be on BOL will rectify this matter

Yes, they are on the case, but whatever the result it will not detract from the position posted versus all the other positions posted that are in opposition to your position. I just happened to take up the challenge, but as the saying goes “no good deed goes unpunished.”

Position on the issue aside Grist. You appear to be intelligent, articulate, and have become a Platinum Poster in just 3 months. However, your last few posts are using phrases that sound all too familiar to the rationalizations of V2.

Please lets not go through that again. Disagree with a post but "Challenge" should be reserved to private messages. But as V2 would say I'm just a vendor. Right

Thanks for the post Don, but why did you not send it as private message? It's disagreement with the disagreement, correct?

Post deleted by mbguard

was the consensus that finding out a customer is keeping cash in a safe deposit box warranted a SAR report or not? And, if the answer is "yes in Maryland", I can live with that -- I am in Maryland!!

I'm not the consensus but I would NOT file a SAR if a customer tells me the cash is going into the safe deposit box. Imagine if that customer said, "I'm finally going to buy that Luxmobile I've always wanted and want to pay with cash." There would be no string on whether or not a SAR is required for this. The true crook is sly enough to not say something that raises suspicion. The non-crook is likely to say something that raises suspicion.

Now imagine a SAR is filed in this case. It is one of those millions of SARs law enforcement decides to follow up on. They go to that customer and ask why the cash was put in the safe deposit box. Who is that customer going to be mad at? The bank will draw the ire for considering a truthful statement suspicious.

If law enforcement has this person in their sights the CTR will give them the ammo they need. Otherwise, I think a SAR is over-kill.

All winners of the Vegan2 Award get the boot. The votes have been counted, the tribe has spoken, and Grist is the latest winner of the Vegan2 award. He is now gone.

I agree that some of Grist's posts were informative and helpful. For that reason, rather than booting him immediately, BOL Management warned him via private message that the tone of some of his posts were offensive to others and he needed to play nice if he wanted to stay. His reply to that private message was also offensive, yet his posts, for a few days, appeared to reflect a "kinder, gentler" Grist, so we refrained from taking action once again. The "edge" to his posts quickly came back, however, and he is no longer welcome on Bankers' Threads.

From Money Laundering.com: “Alert Global Media has collected the following list of activities that, in the right circumstances, could be considered suspicious. Each potential suspicious activity must be compared against the relevant facts surrounding the activity. “
Suspicious Safe Deposit Box Activity
Customer's activity increases in the safe deposit box area, possibly indicating the safekeeping of large amounts of cash.
Customer often visits the safe deposit box area immediately before making cash deposits of sums less than $10,000.
Customer rents multiple safe deposit boxes.
Source: http://www.moneylaundering.com/SARListNew.htm

I also found the following article from Bankers Digest. If seems to support both sides of the argument here – that Safe Deposit transactions are not generally reportable but may be reportable under certain circumstances.
http://www.bankersdigest.com/features_2001_4q/102201_feature.htm
Hope this helps somewhat. May peace reign in the valley!

What are:

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Safe Deposit transactions

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the Vegan2 Award?

Don't ask. Trust me, you DON'T want one. If you get one you are not allowed to play with us any more.

Don Rickles made a good living insulting people and being rude. Very few others have done so well. And nobody has done well here being this way.

On BOL it is deemed to be in bad taste and undesirable.

Getting the V2 award means you're about to get kicked out of the sandbox because you don't play nice with the others.

Well, I think people NEED to know what it is. That way, maybe they'll think twice before they type something. Vegan2 was a poster to this site who, quite frankly, lacked the professionalism that I think we all want to see on this board. His comments were a lot like Grist's, except for the fact that Grist actually contributed something useful from time to time. As a reward for his lack of professionalism, Vegan2 was given his walking papers and is no longer here. Richard was veiling his request for Grist's removal with some well placed wit in nominating Grist for the Vegan2 award. I think that "Vegan2 award" is a good name for it. I, for one, sincerely hope to see it never given out again, but I guess that depends upon the choices each of us make with our words.

V2 was very unpleasant to everyone here. His/her exceptionally rude and obnoxious behavior caused BOL management to ban him/her from forum participation for life.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, tdrago, we don't ever want to lose someone who is contributing; but at the same time, rudeness and attacks on other participants are totally out of character for this group.

I agree that safe deposit activity can lead to the filing of a SAR. If every time the customer comes to the bank and visits the box before making deposits with cash that smells rather strange....no doubt, that is suspicious.

But a customer simply saying he's going to put the cash into his box isn't suspicious in my mind.

I recall the market crash of 1987. A local lawyer emptied his deposit account and took the cash to his safe deposit box. He felt the market crash was going to take banks down too. We filed a CTR. Several months later, the market settled out, the banks didn't fail and the cash came back out of the box and into his account. Another CTR was filed. Was any of this "suspicious?" Not at all. Weird and silly is what all of us in the bank thought but nothing suspicious warranting a report to Uncle Sam.

"Suspicious" is an art, not a science. Some might think the strange habits of my neighbor are suspicious. But I know him and know he's just weird that way.

For the future of banking, I hope we don't cross the line and start considering unusual/strange/silly behavior "suspicious." Once we do that our customers will leave us.