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#629483 - 10/26/06 07:43 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Lip Gloss Offline
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Lip Gloss
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Texas
Just asking.
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#629484 - 10/26/06 07:50 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
MichelleDawn Offline
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Quote:

Oh please. I am getting flamed enough.




I'm not trying to flame you. I hope you didn't think that. You were asking me tough questions and I asked you tough questions. I didn't mean to make you feel picked on.
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#629485 - 10/26/06 07:52 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
MichelleDawn Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

How is that a cheap shot? You clearly indicated that you recognized Science as an authority, and did not recognize the Bible as authoritative. The implication is that, if there is a conflict--whether perceived or real--between the two, you will take the word of Science.

My point was that, since you and I apparently appeal to different authorities, we will no doubt differ on issues. Knowing that will factor into how and when I may choose to debate you.




I felt your implication was that the two can't co-exist and IMO they can. Quite nicely.




In my opinion, they co-exist quite nicely, too. Sorry my initial terseness lead to lack of clarity.




No harm then. I don't know if you have noticed this, but there are some people on this board who are very rigid in their thinking.
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#629486 - 10/26/06 07:54 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
rainman Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

It really doesn't matter if you call it a "marriage" or not. I seriously doubt that the gay and lesbian community will argue on the name of the union as long as they can have one.




I think you're right. I just find the whole "well you can't call it marriage" argument to be strange.




The sound bites I heard on NPR today would indicate that (for both sides) what you call it is a big deal. One of the plaintiff couples said that she was unsatisfied with the decision because a "union" that's not marriage is "less than" marriage [even if it has all of the same legal ramifications].

This illustrates that for both sides, the issue is tolerance vs. approval. Marriage is a societal stamp of approval, and that's what the plaintiffs were after (at least the one being interviewed). The benefits without the approval are not enough. On the other hand, many who believe that marriage is a purely heterosexual union see granting marriage rights as societal approval of such unions. It's one thing to say "yes, you can do this and we'll give you the same rights and benefits as a marriage." It's another to say "these two unions are the same."

This is why TICG's approach (which I believe I posted in older threads before he did!) is appealing. Get the government out of the marriage business altogether.
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#629487 - 10/26/06 07:54 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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While this has all been hashed out in prior threads, I'll throw out yet another point that's been discussed:

At one time, not so long ago, there were laws prohibiting marriage between people of different races. When those laws were being overturned, I'm sure there were people who didn't like it, who didn't believe in marriage between blacks and whites, who thought it changed the definition of marriage. That sounds ridiculous to us now doesn't it. You may never want to marry outside your race (even if you're not racist), but the fact that others do doesn't affect what your marriage is all about.

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#629488 - 10/26/06 08:01 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
MichelleDawn Offline
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I have to agree with Rainman and TICG that it would be best to make marriage a religious right and make the legal end of it called a civil union for everyone.
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#629489 - 10/26/06 08:06 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Nanwa Offline
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Clintonville, WI, USA
So, just because something doesn't affect my particular situation, I shouldn't have an opinion on it? Like, say, I haven't ever been robbed, so I shouldn't be voting that robbers should go to jail?
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#629490 - 10/26/06 08:06 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Bengals Fan Offline
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Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

A family is easily defined by a child. Why is that adults have a hard time with the concept?




Because adults are smarter? Children eat dirt! They stick anything that will fit into their mouth. You want them to define food too?

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#629491 - 10/26/06 08:07 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The he11 of suburbia

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#629492 - 10/26/06 08:08 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
straw Offline
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straw
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Quote:

Quote:

A family is easily defined by a child. Why is that adults have a hard time with the concept?




Because adults are smarter? Children eat dirt! They stick anything that will fit into their mouth. You want them to define food too?




I think Michael should define things.

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#629493 - 10/26/06 08:08 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Bengals Fan Offline
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Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

: ____________ can marry more than one person but I can not."?




It's not that hard. Single people can marry more people than they currently have, why can't I?

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#629494 - 10/26/06 08:09 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Nanwa Offline
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Clintonville, WI, USA
Quote:



Because adults are smarter?




But are we? Hmmmmm, not so sure about that one.
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#629495 - 10/26/06 08:10 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
A_G Offline
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Quote:

The sound bites I heard on NPR today would indicate that (for both sides) what you call it is a big deal.




As would the opinions of the dissenters on the court. Those who dissented did so, not because they disagreed with the general idea, but because they think the majority did not go far enough; they wanted it called "marriage."

I found that quite interesting.
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#629496 - 10/26/06 08:11 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Bengals Fan Offline
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Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

And FWIW, I think people were procreating before marriage was ever invented.




FWIW, you are incorrect. The first marriage, of Adam and Eve, was reported in Genesis 2. The first procreation, of Cain and Abel, was reported in Genesis 4.




Not incorrect according to Science.




Ok, show me some "SCIENCE" that indicates when people first married and when they first had sex! Pfffft

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#629497 - 10/26/06 08:12 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The he11 of suburbia
Quote:

Single people can marry more people than they currently have, why can't I?




Hey, I think you're on to something...

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#629498 - 10/26/06 08:13 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A family is easily defined by a child. Why is that adults have a hard time with the concept?




Because adults are smarter? Children eat dirt! They stick anything that will fit into their mouth. You want them to define food too?




I think Michael should define things.




Egads.
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#629499 - 10/26/06 08:33 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Non Ron anon Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

: ____________ can marry more than one person but I can not."?




It's not that hard. Single people can marry more people than they currently have, why can't I?




It's not hard if you change the question entirely, but that isn't what I asked, is it?

Who can legally marry more than one person at a time????? Until you can answer that there is no equal protection argument for polygamy.

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#629500 - 10/26/06 08:41 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
rainman Offline
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Who can legally marry someone of the same sex????? Until you can answer that there is no equal protection argument for same sex marriage.

Same argument - different group, that's all.
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#629501 - 10/26/06 08:41 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Sing A Little Offline
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I don't think that allowing gay unions will tarnish my marriage. We should be happy that there are people who want to be legally recognized as a couple. This is not a religious issue, it's about a piece of paper giving them permission to share each other's responsibilities. What is really wrong with that? Looking at the big picture, is it really going to make a huge difference...not really.
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#629502 - 10/26/06 08:57 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
straw Offline
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With the divorce rate as high as it is, I keep wondering why gay couples want to join an institution that is suffering.

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#629503 - 10/26/06 08:59 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The he11 of suburbia
Quote:

With the divorce rate as high as it is, I keep wondering why gay couples want to join an institution that is suffering.




They should every right to be as miserable as everyone else.

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#629504 - 10/26/06 09:04 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Lip Gloss Offline
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Texas
Why do people marry at all? They can be committed to one another without the paper work. But if they are christian then they marry to avoid fornication i guess
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#629505 - 10/26/06 09:10 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The Incredible ComplyGuy
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The he11 of suburbia
Quote:

Why do people marry at all? They can be committed to one another without the paper work. But if they are christian then they marry to avoid fornication i guess




You say fornication like it was a bad thing...

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#629506 - 10/26/06 09:14 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
Lip Gloss Offline
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Lip Gloss
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Texas
Oh I'm no hypocrite I wasn't saying it as if it were bad. I was just saying that'may be one factor of people marrying
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#629507 - 10/26/06 09:21 PM Re: NJ passes civil rights law for homosexuals
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The Incredible ComplyGuy
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The he11 of suburbia
Quote:

Oh I'm no hypocrite I wasn't saying it as if it were bad. I was just saying that'may be one factor of people marrying




Ok, just want to make sure you're in favor of fornication

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