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#117100 - 09/24/03 04:53 PM Do Not Call List blocked by Court
redsfan Offline
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redsfan
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,455
The Pennant Race
The FTC's Do Not Call Registry has been blocked by a Federal Court in Oklahoma. Here is a link to CNN's story:

Last edited by pbrinker; 09/24/03 08:06 PM.
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#117101 - 09/24/03 05:25 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
JSD Offline
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JSD
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 512
USA
Paul, For some reason when I click on the site in your message, I am taken to the site but nothing is on the page????

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#117102 - 09/24/03 05:36 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Bartman Offline
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Bartman
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,191
Springfield
Try this one.
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#117103 - 09/24/03 06:05 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
La. Lady Offline
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La. Lady
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,873
Wonder what took them so long to rule on this? Then again...that is our court system......

As far a telemarketers having their own lists, they don't abide by the customer request. At least some don't.

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#117104 - 09/24/03 07:14 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Anonymous
Unregistered

I have read the ruling, and if I read it correctly, the only part blocked is the list. Does the rest of the rule stand? If so we as a financial institution need to utilize state do not call lists and a bank do-not-call list.

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#117105 - 09/24/03 07:16 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
complylady Offline
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complylady
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 614
Michigan
Sorry, I am the anon, got logged out.

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#117106 - 09/24/03 07:23 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Anonymous
Unregistered

For those of you who did not receive our special Banker Briefing email about this this morning, you can access our article here:

Federal Court Blocks Do Not Call List

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#117107 - 09/24/03 07:24 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Tisa Offline
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Tisa
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 938
Do you know the way to ...
We're wondering, since California has its own DNC registry, how that affects state lists, too.... Guess we'll just have to wait a little, until the dust clears.
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#117108 - 09/24/03 07:24 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Just Jean Offline
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 582
USA
So are the 50 million of us that signed up for the national list going to start calling the judge at the dinner hour? Where's the sign up sheet?

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#117109 - 09/24/03 07:26 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
complylady Offline
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complylady
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 614
Michigan
I have read that, the CNN story and the ruling. Is it only the list that is blocked, not the entire rule?

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#117110 - 09/24/03 07:49 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Anonymous
Unregistered

To help you get the full details of the court's ruling, I've updated my article to include a link to the 20 page court order.

BOL Article on Court Ruling

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#117111 - 09/24/03 07:56 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
complylady Offline
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complylady
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 614
Michigan
Have you had a chance to read the ruling to see what it means for us as financials institutions? The prior rule exempted banks, whereby this rule included banks. When I read this I don't think the entire rule was blocked, just the part referring to the list. Am I correct?

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#117112 - 09/24/03 08:38 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
RVFlyboy Offline
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RVFlyboy
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,992
Soaring over Georgia
I just read the ruling. The only part overturned is the national "Do Not Call" registry. It was overturned on the basis that Congress granted the FCC and not the FTC authority in 1991 to establish a national database of customers who object to receiving telephone solicitation. FCC declined to do so for specified reasons at that time. Later legislation authorized the FTC to put out regulations to prohibit deceptive and abusive telemarketing acts or practices, but did not grant specific authority to establish a national "do not call" registry. Ordinarily, this would still be OK as long as the rule promulgated by the FTC did not go against the clear intent of Congress. However the court has ruled in this case that the FTC's actions create significant constitutional issues with regard to the abridgement of the right to free speech of the telemarketers, and thus the court must construe the statute to avoid such constitutional problems.
The court goes on to say that Congress, in its appropriations bills where it allocated money for the FTC to implement and administer the "do not call" registry, it could have there granted the explicit authority necessary to make this OK. But Congress only authorized the money, not the authority. And the court has interepreted this to mean that Congress was not granting "the authority under the TCFAP to promulgate a do-not-call registry. It merely recognizes that the FTC has done so." That's the funniest line in the whole ruling! The court is saying that although Congress clearly said to FTC here is your money to set up the "Do Not Call" registry, they didn't mean that FTC had the authority to do so.

I recommend you read the ruling. It reads pretty easy and is very entertaining. At first I thought they were building a pretty strong case why this "Do Not Call" registry would be OK, but then abrubptly flipped in the middle to come down on this Constitutional question of free speech.

Sheesh, the telemarketers have a right to free speech alright. But when they call my house on the telephone line I pay for, their free speech rights have ended, buddy!
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#117113 - 09/24/03 08:42 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Have you had a chance to read the ruling to see what it means for us as financials institutions? The prior rule exempted banks, whereby this rule included banks. When I read this I don't think the entire rule was blocked, just the part referring to the list. Am I correct?




From just a quick review of the decision, it appears the court did not reach the issues relating to free speech, but focused entirely on whether the FTC had the statutory authority to promulgate the list. They concluded it did not, and also noted that Congress expressly granted authority to the FCC under the TCPA to establish a national database to compile a list of telephone numbers of reseidential subscribers who object to receiving telephone solicitations. That would appear to indicate the court believes FCC clearly has the authority, while FTC does not.

This court didn't need to reach the constitutional issues. The court in the other case (involving the FCC rule) might come out with a decision grounded on first amendment free speech. At the present time, this order only direct affects the FTC rule which, by its very terms, does not apply to financial institutions.

Stay tuned!

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#117114 - 09/24/03 09:05 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
complylady Offline
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complylady
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 614
Michigan
I did read the ruling, and that is why I believed (correctly) that the blocking only related to the list. Just wanted clarification. So the procedures we have implemented will remain the same with the exception of no national list. We will use the state list, and maintain an internal do-not-call list.

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#117115 - 09/24/03 09:38 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
RVFlyboy Offline
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RVFlyboy
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,992
Soaring over Georgia
Sorry, Complylady, I wasn't meaning to direct my recommendation to read the ruling to you directly, but rather meant it to be a recommendation to everyone in general to read it as much for its entertainment value as for its information. I actually found myself laughing out loud at one point while reading it, which is a rarity for reading Federal court opinions.

I meant no implication that you personally had not read the ruling and apologize that it sounded that way.
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#117116 - 09/24/03 10:46 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Anonymous
Unregistered

This seems very odd to me. As of 5:30 central time, the only statement the FCC had on its Web site was this short statement from FCC Chairman Powell:


STATEMENT OF FCC CHAIRMAN MICHAEL POWELL
ON DO NOT CALL LIST COURT DECISION
Congress, the FCC and the FTC have all been in agreement about the need to give
consumers the opportunity to choose to prevent intrusions from unwanted telemarketing telephone calls. The do-not-call list is an appropriate mechanism to accomplish this task. Despite today's court decision, we will work closely with the FTC and Congress to ensure that the do-not-call registry becomes a reality and American consumers can control the calls that come into their homes.

Wouldn't you think that if they believed this ruling did not affect the FCC's do not call initiative that he would have said so in this news release? I have looked all over the Net and can't find anything that speaks authoritatively to this issue. It's back to the books to get to the bottom of this . . .


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#117117 - 09/24/03 11:46 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Princess Romeo Offline

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Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
My phone rings at home....

"Good evening Mrs. Misarrie (my first clue), I am calling from..." (Me) OH I'M SORRY, CAN YOU HOLD ON A MINUTE?

Where upon I put the phone down and walk away continuing to do whatever I was doing. Five minutes later, I hang up the phone.
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#117118 - 09/25/03 12:02 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
waldensouth Offline
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waldensouth
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,988
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
The FCC website takes credit for the DNC list. So, If the court ruled that the FCC has the authority - but not the FTC - why don't they just shift the program over to the FCC and keep it going?
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#117119 - 09/25/03 05:42 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
Deena Offline
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Deena
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,701
PA
"House Votes to Reinstate 'Do Not Call' List"

web page
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#117120 - 09/25/03 06:34 PM Latest Update on Do Not Call List
Anonymous
Unregistered

As Deena noted above, Congress is moving at an unbelievably fast pace to legislatively fix the flaw the court's decision was based upon. I'm sure the thought of 50 million possible voters being very unhappy is a major motivating factor.

In case you didn't click over to the news story, it says that the House of Representatives voted 412-8 today to give the Federal Trade Commission authority to run the national "do not call" registry of phone numbers, which telemarketers would be prohibited to call. The Senate was expected to vote on a nearly identical measure later in the afternoon.

BTW, a representative of the Direct Marketing Association was on TV this morning downplaying the 50 million number. He said that is 50 million telephone numbers and it's highly likely that some individuals have registered multiple numbers, such as their cell phone and their home phone. The interviewer pointed out that in many instances one number represents the do not call wish of an entire household of individuals.


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#117121 - 09/25/03 09:00 PM Re: Do Not Call List blocked by Court
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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SMQ, CRCM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,828
Between the lines
Quote:

So are the 50 million of us that signed up for the national list going to start calling the judge at the dinner hour? Where's the sign up sheet?




OK, fess up. How many of you called the judge during dinner last night??
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#117122 - 09/25/03 09:12 PM Re: Latest Update on Do Not Call List
Alien Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 862
Mexifornia
Quote:

As Deena noted above, Congress is moving at an unbelievably fast pace to legislatively fix the flaw the court's decision was based upon. I'm sure the thought of 50 million possible voters being very unhappy is a major motivating factor.




I wish they could move as fast to close the borders!!
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#117123 - 09/26/03 12:48 PM Re: Latest Update on Do Not Call List
Retired DQ Offline
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Retired DQ
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Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
Quote:

BTW, a representative of the Direct Marketing Association was on TV this morning downplaying the 50 million number. He said that is 50 million telephone numbers and it's highly likely that some individuals have registered multiple numbers, such as their cell phone and their home phone. The interviewer pointed out that in many instances one number represents the do not call wish of an entire household of individuals.



Direct Marketing = Bologna
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#117124 - 09/26/03 12:55 PM Re: Latest Update on Do Not Call List
Anonymous
Unregistered

Another update: As reported in our briefing this morning, the Colorado federal district court has issued a decision also striking down the rule, but this decision is based upon constitutional grounds, which may mean the Congress can't do anything about it. See our updated article for a link to the court decision, which explains FCC vs. FTC actions.

Updated BOL Article

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