haha..that is a good one!



I think this is being misinterpreted. It has nothing to do with what the contract says the seller will pay..it has everything to do with "typically paid SELLER fees"..not what the seller MIGHT pay for the borrower.

Many contract have the seller pay ALL fees...well boy couldn't THAT get taken advantage of!

My opinion is simply this and it goes with the catch phrase above. If it's not strictly a seller paid item, it should be on the GFE...otherwise I really hope folks can back up why they believe it is "typically" paid by the seller.

RR, I am in agreement with you, however in the two situations where Dave explain, those charges are not typically paid by the borrower.

But on your behalf, if a lender makes a GFE and assumes something is seller paid and it is not, its a GFE violation and not something that constitutes a changed circumstance, if it is a fee that a borrower typically pays. For example, the situation I used with VA loans. If you make a GFE and don't include origination fees, you will be hard pressed to convince anyone that you were going to have the seller pay them and it was a changed circumstance. It is a fee that is typically paid by the borrower.

Yeah, I agree with that too...however, I posted something up above where we have several items that fit nowhere really but in the transfer tax section. They are not all typically paid by the seller, so I think it boils down to a state-by-state situation.

So, if you have a contract and it state seller will pay up to 4% in closing costs...are you all of the opinion you account for that, or disclose the fees even tho they will be absorbed by the seller. Be nice if the GFE had a seller-paid credit area on it!

I'm excited that I got approval today and signed up for David's webinar.

Not sure if everyone saw the 10/23/09 updated FAQ's

http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/ramh/res/resparulefaqs.pdf

They are really just toying with us for their own evil purposes now, aren't they???

I wish they would offer not only the updated version, but also just addendums to the FAQ's... they are not making this easy for note making and study purposes.

I was at a seminar Friday (Thanks Jack - great job) and just want to clarify somethings.

If, in a purchase transaction, you typically have the closing attorney prepare the HUD-1 is the fee considered an "origination fee"?

What else can be construed as an "origination fee" that might not come immediately to mind?

I'm really afraid of getting this part wrong - and it has the ZERO tolerance attached to it...

Tigg- I've never seen an attorney fee preparing the HUD-1 as a origination fee. The origination fee as I understand it is a fee for processing the loan application.

I believe the origination fee has nothing to do with an attorney or title company preparing a HUD-1 settlement statment.

But this is where my confusion comes in.

Let's talk about the survey. We do not require a survey - however we will not accept an exception on the title policy for matters of survey. In most cases, this is handled by the ALTA 9 but there are times where the title company wants a survey. From what I've been reading, even if I think that a survey will be required, I need to put it on the GFE. I don't hire surveyors (or termite companies) so I don't have names but I have to put it on my preferred providers checklist???

I don't think that would be a bad idea, but it would not be required. However, if it turns out the property would need a survey, I don't believe this qualifies as a changed circumstance and in all likelihood you will be eating some form of the survey anyway.

That is true, however the new Q&As state that you must put the fees in the right bucket. The example they give is, you either pay the attorney to do the papers for closing or settlement. If it is for closing and you pass it on to the borrower, its an origination fee. If it is for settlement and you pass it on to the borrower, its a title fee.

Would you be willing to share?

Im not sure I follow.

The attorney can't charge for preparing the HUD 1/TIL, however he could be charging for other bank-related preparation. The best thing to do is instruct your attorney how to charge or have him/her fill out a sheet of how they WILL charge and use that for your estimates.

As far as a survey for unknown title problems? That should fit neatly into "changed circumstances".


If you require their service then you must give a list...no minimum required number has been stated, but you must have it for those items contained in blocks 4, 5 and 6.

In regards to the attorney fees - we have some attorneys that break out their fee neatly for us to pull the doc prep out (for exhibit and/or deed) and some that just have one fee for prepared exhibit for mortgage and title opinion. Do I need to have the fee broken out by the attorney (I think yes) or can I just group it with title services since it is one fee? I think I know the answer, but don't want the attorney battle.

He said he was working on a spreadsheet to find out what the various charges are from attorneys

Can anyone tell me where an advance mortgage release fee would be on the GFE?

The first thing that came to my mind when I read this was:

If you insist...you must have a list!

I like that!

Want to see just the 10/23 changes? Me, too! Here they are, all by themselves:

http://www.bankersonline.com/lending/lending_hudfaq.html

Our Mortgage Department received notification from a title company that effective immediately, they would be using the average charge pricing under the new RESPA rules for government recording fees. They told us we have no option but to begin doing this immediately. My concern is that the bank is the one responsible for RESPA accuracy when the examiners are here. How do I know that the title company used the correct method to establish the average charge? Also, it would seem that every title company should be using the same average charge if this is the case because it's government recording fees. The average charge they came up with for residential refinances is $93.00 and residential purchase is $153.00. In a quick review of recent refinances, the price is typically $60.00 or under. The title company states that they will no longer charge for addtional recorded documents such as quit claim deeds, power or attorney recording or subordination recording fees. However, most of our transactions do not include these fees. Also, subordination recording fees are a finance charge so how will I be able to comply with Reg Z if they lump all of this together as an average charge? I'm hoping some others have insight into what their local title companies are doing.

Are they supplying you with the, what is it...6 months evidence of how they arrived at the fee and on-going compliance? What a mess! If they lump fc and non fc fees together you won't have much choice but to include the entire amount as a fc, I'm afraid.

So last week HUD emphatically denies the request for a delay in the effective date of the RESPA changes, stating that the industry will have had 14 months in which to prepare, which should be adequate time.

The same day they post additional FAQs on the changes! I hope 14 months will be adequate time for HUD. In the last answer of the 10-07-09 FAQs, they indicate they have not yet revised the Settlement Cost Booklet. Any guesses on how soon before January 1 this will be available?

Thank you Mary Beth for just the "new" FAQs, much easier to keep up with.