I use PCI Wiz to geocode, map and analyze my HMDA and CRA submissions and my loan portfolio. I am wondering what other companies are out that that do the same thing. Your input is appreciated.

Look no farther than the sponsor of the Lending Forum, Don Narup's company. They are another that has a good product worth evaluating.

Andy I second the motion, Don is a straight shooter and is driven by accurate recommendations vs the dollar.

You can also contact The Attus Group for information too. They help about 200 banks across the country with an outsourcing solution that makes my life easy.

We are currently in the process of selecting a vendor. Does anyone have any comments on Centrax vs. PCI CRA Wiz? Thanks.

I have used both and will be investigating all proposals when the current contract expires.

The Attus Group provides outsourced CRA analysis services for banks across the country. We would be more than happy to send you information. Simply give us a call at 800-323-5215.

Please do not use the forum's to advertise your company. If you have expertise to contribute fine, but DON'T think that your company is the only company that is out there - There are a dozen companies that do compliance analysis. And since I am familiar with nearly all of them, I can say that I have never heard of Attus.
...and for the record, I don't work for any compliance company.

I wouldn't use either company, PCi has a decent product but unless you have several people that will use it on a daily basis it will overwhelm you and you might as well throw your money down a well. Centrax has never been a favorite. You would be better off outsourcing the entire program.
Just my opinion.

I'm going to completely disagree with CEB (sorry)

I use the Wiz and am very happy with the program. I have a couple of users with only one accessing the program on any regular schedule and we have no difficulty with operations. (We did spend money and continue to on keeping our folks trained...I'd do that with ANY software I rely on for CRA reporting).

I met with Centrax and did not feel the change was worth the costs we would see if we did a switch, but I am aware that there are many happy users of that product as well.

I also have used Don's company and can tell you that I was a satisified puppy.

The thing about CRA is that you have to determine your needs and your ability to pay for them. I posted in another thread that I think no software/support is nuts, but I also think that there are different programs for different needs. I like having my fingers on the data immediately and for that reason I like my Wiz. I also like seeing the data that the OCC sees cuz...well they're my examiners and I don't want a suprise. A good consultant or software program will however give you the same level of information...and if you ask they'll probably make it look like the examiner's information

I would rather die than outsource my entire program. A lack of control (committies and outsourcing) leads to disaster. If you're tiny...and you don't care what your rating is...well I guess that's an option, but I couldn't do it!

Dawnie - Is WIZ 6.5 all it's hyped up to be? We are up for conversion to 6.5 (and renewal) and I am about to outsource. I just spent two days massaging Excel files so the ever-so-persnickity (sp?) Wiz would import it. No luck, numbers formatted in Excel as numbers are not being read by Wiz. I called PCi, and called, and called - busy signal for a half hour.
Granted, I only have to use the program each quarter and at year end but it seems to be a huge hassle every time!
I am not a happy puppy.

I like the added features in 6.5 but I don't use it daily so I get in as much trouble working the darned program as you do (Any chance that this is due to the fact that I played on BOL during the training sessions at Wiz?)

My assistant however really works the program to it's full extent. She likes the additional information we can get out of it, but still occasionally grumbles. I'd preface that by saying that they once upset me, but when I shopped about I found nothing as good, and the other "big" company was rather rude. My solution was to change my sales person at Wiz. Now all is well since I have the best guy there (discount my annual fee now Carl)

I'd suggest calling your sales rep directly if you're not getting through on those help lines. I know mine would take care of the issue for me if I resorted to this (because I have to admit I did have to do this once). If you don't want to bother with that step, my assistant probably can walk you though the problem as she's a wiz at both excel and wiz. I told her what your problem was but she wanted more details...what fields were problems (date, dollar, loan number, etc. to test our 6.5 compared to yours).

One more thing. Tash says it's probably an issue with your Wiz import format. You need to tell Wiz what format those number fields need to import to Excel as. Ie Date, Time, Dollar, etc. You do this through the import wizard. Check out "Format" features in your help directory. This is 99% most likely your issue

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If you're tiny...and you don't care what your rating is...well I guess that's an option, but I couldn't do it!

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Dawnie

I do take exception to that as it just way off the mark. The implication that outsourcing detracts from a banks CRA rating is just (deleted). We provide this service to banks as small as 40 million and large as 18 Billion. Personally you may not want to outsource, but there are many reason besides saving time and expense, that other people do. Our customers, as I'm sure the customers of other outsourcing companies, get through examinations just fine with good rating, by Outsourcing. One of our Small Banks just received an "Outstanding" which is not easy for a small bank to do. Examiners don't care who you use as long as the information is accurate.

We use Wiz and while it is expensive are very happy with it. We have even started using the reports when we are considering a new branch location. It has all of the demographics that we used to pay a consultant for. Once you learn how to work it it is not all that complicated (of course, I don't do that myself, I have someone who does but she is getting quite good at it.) We find the support to be excellent. A lot of that, as Dawnie says, can depend upon your sales rep. They have been very supportive and have solved some problems for me when staff was out and the OCC was breathing down my neck. I can't complain. I think there are just people like Dawnie and me who are control freaks and want information at their fingertips. When I have a question, I want the answer NOW; I don't like to wait. It's just a personality quirk. I should go to that other thread and take the test about identifying what weird employee I am. Some sort of control freak, I am sure.

The actual statement I was responding to suggested outsourcing your entire CRA program Don. At least that's how I read it. By saying "tiny" and not caring about your rating I meant that if you don't have the staff and don't care if you continually get a satisfactory, that outsourcing the whole package would be ok, but since I do care about my rating (meaning I want an outstanding and am not satisfied with a satisfactory) I feel that outsourcing the ENTIRE program would be a huge mistake.

Small bank CRA exams are mostly about the numbers. A company like yours can present and analyze the numbers effectively, actually probably more effectively than a small bank compliance person or group wearing the CRA hat. Many of those tiny bank's don't care about outstanding, they want satisfactory and want just enough data to get to that figure.

I'm sure if someone provided you with the data to move them from satisfactory to outstanding that you could do a very effective job at presenting their case for them Don. I have no doubt of that, but I don't think that any entity other than the bank can put together a program as successfully as someone like myself can who works on the program every day of the year. I honestly don't believe you can tell me who is best to work with when given two local choices, nor can you understand the conplex needs of the communities I serve which can change rapidly. That's not to say that you can't provide value Don, I know you can, but can you ever say that you can compete with someone in the community 24/7?

So I guess what I meant was that there pieces you can outsource, and yes, you can do so with fabulous vendors like yourself, but to outsource an entire program??? I don't see how it could ever be as good as an in house program managed by competent folks. It would never be cost effective to pay you to do what I do on a daily basis.

Did that make sense at all? I really wasn't saying that folks like you don't provide value Don. Nor was I trying to imply that one couldn't get a decent rating if they did outsource parts of their program, but for a larger bank to outsource the entire world of CRA? I have a hard time believing it's going to result in an outstanding rating for a large bank to have someone in California, Texas, Boston, etc., design and impliment my CRA program on a daily basis.

In house programs are fine and there are several available that do a good job. However, most compliance officers don't have the time, budget or experience it takes to do all that. Outsourcing takes a lot of pressure off and reduces a compliance persons or dept. work load. It gives the compliance person or dept. a lot of time that can be put to better use.

You might be amazed at what is being outsourced by institutions that do care about their rating. Some of them have software programs and some don't but all have found outsourcing to be effective in reducing cost and in many case more effective that what can be put together in house software program or not.

Everyones circumstances are different and IMO there is no one best solution for all. If you ever get down to this neck of the woods perhaps we can show you some things that will change your assumptions.

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 Is 30,000 mortgage applications too much for one person?  

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Yikes! IMO it surly is. Your asking this person to accrutely review and process about 113 records a day. That's about 1 record every 3-4 minutes. There is a lot more to HMDA this year than in years past. If you are manually geocoding she would be hard pressed to get that done daily let alone review any file or data information for accuracy and still do all the other task she is required to handle. With only a 5% error margin allowed by examiners she would have to be a most exceptional peron to keep everything organized and accurate.

Is there a magic number where it gets to be to much for one person? IMO its when they say "I can't control it anymore". That number won't be the same for every institution. It depends on a variety of things, the condition of the data that comes from the loan processor, is one, but mostly what tools are available that can keep the process flowing smoothly without causing nervous breakdowns, or continued fustration with to much to do, and not enough time to make sure its done right. IMO burning good employees out is just not good business.

Outsourcing can eliminate the time it takes to geocode and a lot of the HMDA error scrubbing. This in itself would provide time to be more productive in other areas. It also would keep records in an easy to submit format so that annual submission is a 5 minute operation instead of hours or days.

Another time saver is obtaining a Fair Lending Analysis without all the hassel of plowing through tons of report to see what they mean. Its looking at the bank before examiners do. Its receiving information that can be used to create aditional marketing opportunities. Its having a report that is board presentable without spending days trying to prepare one. Its having a second pair of experienced eyes checking the data for problems. Outsourcing gives you the benefit of valuable experience and knowledge you don't have to pay for. Plus, from a cost stand point, its cheaper than you can do it in house.

Importantly, it's being able to manage your data instead of your data manageing you.

As far as your situation goes, based on what you wrote, it would take a lot of pressue off this person to outsoure and give her more time to concentrate on the important compliance related tasks that may now be getting short shift.

Thanks for the very helpful and promptly provided information, Don.

Wow. I must agree with Don. There are several companies out there that can help you with that many loan applications. I feel sorry for the poor person trying to geocode, scrub, and error check that many records without some help. I hope he/she is being provided with the capability to batch geocode the accounts each quarter, as well as electronically scrub the data looking for potential errors.

Jay if it helps you with management at all, I have about 10,000 records annually to deal with (HMDA and CRA). I have one full time HMDA processor, one CRA processor (data input and geocoding only) and a full time assistant who does all of the data integrity and corrections. We currently use WIZ which batch's most geocoding, but much manual work is needed as well, especially with the changes to HMDA this year.

If your poor person hasn't quit yet with just her one body doing everything, you're lucky! I'd consider either staffing appropriately or outsourcing the data prep work ASAP as Don mentioned. She's overwhelmed and maybe doesn't even know how much Poor darling. Oh and give her a big fat raise too

I have used both PCI Wiz and QuestSoft HMDA Relief. I found PCI did not have good customer support (I used them during their big expansion 4 years ago) and the price was outrageous compared to other companies. QuestSoft does both HMDA and CRA at a fraction of the cost. I used them at a bank that is 1.7 billion (10,000 records a year)and a bank at 350 million (150 records a year). Both get the job done. PCI gives more reports but I can export from QuestSoft and create my own reports for free.

Our Holding Company has used CRA Information Services out of San Diego, California for several years. Their service is top quality. They do our geo-coding, mapping and data submission. They are always available throughout the year for any help or questions we might have. We just had an examination and the examiners questioned some of the census tracts. CRA Information Services sent me detailed maps to clarify the accuracy of the geo-coding and we were able to satisfy the examiner in every case. I would strongly recommend them for the quality of work and excellent service.