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#170981 - 03/18/04 07:52 PM stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
slloyd Offline
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Joined: May 2003
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What is the credit union's liability if a check is converted to ACH and pays after a stop was placed on the check? Is it in our best interest to inform the member of this possibility every time and allow them the option of placing an ACH stop as well?

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#170982 - 03/18/04 08:07 PM Re: stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
rlcarey Offline
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Galveston, TX
That's a very interesting question. One that I'm sure that hasn't been addressed in the UCC. The courts may have to decide that if the CU or Bank let a stop payment order slip through, whether the CU or Bank acted within the general "due diligence" safe harbor. There are others out there that are more versed in the UCC than I and I would like to hear their opinions as well.
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#170983 - 03/18/04 08:14 PM Re: stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
John Burnett Offline
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The NACHA rules specifically provide that these converted checks remain subject to stop payment rules up to the time of final posting, just as if they were checks. (They are not, for example, subject to Reg. E's 3-day advance notice requirement for pre-authorized debits.)

We have run into the same question, and we believe it advisable to place a stop on both entry points (MICR and ACH) for any check that was mailed to a billing creditor.

It's desirable, IMHO, that vendors step up to the plate and provide single-stop capability that will cover both MICR items and converted checks. Until then, though, we'll have to put double stops in place.
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#170984 - 03/18/04 08:16 PM Re: stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
rlcarey Offline
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Galveston, TX
Thanks - John, I knew you'd come through.
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#170985 - 03/18/04 08:26 PM Re: stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
John Burnett Offline
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This, from my recent Reg E class at ABA NCS, when discussing the initial disclosure requirements under 205.7:

Quote:


The “model language” for stop payments only addresses pre-authorized (recurring) transfers. Customer may be mislead into thinking the 3-business day notice requirement applies to TEL, WEB, ARC and POP transactions (which it does not).


ACH rules require that stops be accepted on these items if received in time for the bank to act on them.


Suggestion: Consult with counsel and consider adding language like "You may also stop payment on some one-time electronic payments, such as those you authorize on the Internet or telephone, or those made by converting your checks to electronic payments. We must receive these requests before the payment posts to your account."



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#170986 - 03/20/04 08:39 PM Re: stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
Strategery Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Snow Country
Quote:

The NACHA rules specifically provide that these converted checks remain subject to stop payment rules up to the time of final posting, just as if they were checks. (They are not, for example, subject to Reg. E's 3-day advance notice requirement for pre-authorized debits.)

We have run into the same question, and we believe it advisable to place a stop on both entry points (MICR and ACH) for any check that was mailed to a billing creditor.

It's desirable, IMHO, that vendors step up to the plate and provide single-stop capability that will cover both MICR items and converted checks. Until then, though, we'll have to put double stops in place.




While that would help banks "catch" check conversions, it appears from NACHA's Quick Reference Chart here stop payments originally placed only on the customers check are allowed to be returned thru ACH as R08(stop payment) within 60 days of settlement of the converted electronic payment -- at least for RCK and ARC.
Realize that it puts burdon back on the customer to "catch" the banks miss on their statement within the 60 day period.

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#170987 - 03/22/04 03:54 PM Re: stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
mfc Offline
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mfc
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 50
Oklahoma
I have seen a situation where a customer wrote a check to a telephone company. The checks was converted into an ACH. The customer came into the bank the day after the ACH posted and placed a "stop payment" on the item. We returned the item as a stop payment. Does this fall under REG E, since it was electronic? The reason for the stop payment is that the customer "cannot pay at this time." The ACH was not "unauthorized", it really posted more quickly than the customer thought - the customer was relying on the "float". Can we do this? I guess the problem I have is that we returned it as a stop payment and there was not a stop payment at the time the item hit the account. Help please.

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#170988 - 03/22/04 04:08 PM Re: stop payments on checks converted to ACH debits
John Burnett Offline
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If the customer issued the stop payment order before the cutoff hour (if any) established by your bank for finalizing posting (see UCC §4-303(a)(5)), the bank may accept the stop and return the item. The cutoff hour is a time at least one hour after bank opening and no later than close of business, on the business day following the day on which the item was received for presentment.

But if the customer asks the bank to return such an item any later than the cutoff hour, the stop order is too late.

In your case, it appears the customer made it in time, unless you have a cutoff hour earlier in the day that the customer missed.
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