Thread Options
|
#122858 - 10/15/03 08:00 PM
Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
If a check comes through on an account that is set up "two signatures required" and it only has one signature, do you take the time to call your customer to come in with another signature or do you return the check as "two signatures required"? It would be a courtesy to call your customer but since you only have a short time in order to return the check if you need to I wondered how most banks handled that.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122859 - 10/15/03 08:21 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
100 Club
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 125
Kansas
|
I think it would depend on the amount. I would probably try to reach the customer by phone and authorize the check that way. Document the conversation though. If I couldn't reach someone on the phone I would probably send the item back if it were large or questionable. Say the check is on a girl scout troop, but payable to an adult film store. I would send this check back, but if it were made to the girl scout council I would probably pay it.
Alot of banks don't check signatures unless there is a problem with the account (they truncate or bulk file).
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122860 - 10/15/03 08:52 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
Power Poster
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,608
Near the Land of Enchantment
|
A lot of banks have also chosen not to allow TSR accounts - due to the cost and liability in checking each and every item that pays against the account.
_________________________
Opinions my own.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122861 - 10/16/03 01:59 AM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,769
On the Net
|
Ditto Lestie. While the bank doesn't recognize it, they may allow the customer to do this for their internal controls, but with no liability on the bank's part.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122863 - 10/17/03 01:56 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
10K Club
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
|
I do agree with Andy. Clearly, if a signature card indicates two signatures are required, the bank has agreed to it and must monitor it. (I would also add, the bank should be paid for it, but that's a different thread). However, if the signature card does not discuss it, it is not part of the contract and a check with a single signature is properly payable.
Absent that, the customer is welcome to say two signatures are required as a part of its own internal controls, but those controls are for the customer to enforce among its signatories, not the bank. Giving the customer a disclosure where it acknowledges the bank will not monitor for two signatures would eliminate any future disagreement over the customer's understanding of the arrangement. My opinion is the disclosure is a good idea. Others might classify it as unnecessary because the contract in no way indicated two signatures were required anyway.
Last edited by Ken/Pegasus; 10/17/03 01:57 PM.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122864 - 10/17/03 02:38 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
|
One might argue that unless the bank has addressed the issue in its contractual language and/or disclosure, the customer's addition of a "Two Signatures Required for Amounts over $500" legend over the signature line(s) could create a situation that would lean in favor of the depositor if the bank failed to check and the depositor lost money from a single-signature transaction.
I am in the crowd that's developing slowly here that advises having specific language in the customer contract that provides that, unless specifically agreed to in writing by the bank, the bank will not be bound by any multiple signature requirement expressed or implied, legends on checks notwithstanding. The bank could and should exact a price for taking on the monitoring requirement for a specific customer, and should have the ability to set reasonable expectations. It's obviously harder (and riskier) to check all items over $500 than it is all items over $5,000.
_________________________
John S. Burnett BankersOnline.com Fighting for Compliance since 1976 Bankers' Threads User #8
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122866 - 10/17/03 03:54 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,769
On the Net
|
I believe I posted this or similar language before. Here is a sample clause from a Deposit Agreement we used:
Multiple Signatures. We do not establish any accounts that require two (2) or more signatures on any items drawn on the Account. If, for example, you state “requires two signatures if greater than $1,000,” you acknowledge that such provision is solely for your personal or internal control purposes. You shall indemnify and hold us harmless for losses due to paying any item bearing at least one authorized signature.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122868 - 10/17/03 04:29 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
10K Club
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
|
Understood. We read it differently. I read it that Andy was responding to Leslie, not Anon. Sometimes it's hard to tell who's talking to who!
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122869 - 10/18/03 06:37 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,769
On the Net
|
If you hold your mouse pointer over the bold subject, in this case, Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required a post number will show in a second or two that was replied to. Sometimes a user will add to the last post on a thread but discuss something way above. I was responding to Lestie. The post with my Deposit Agreement cite better establishes my intent and confirmation of her post.
Sorry for the confusion.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122871 - 10/20/03 04:18 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
10K Club
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,769
On the Net
|
Intriguing discussions are what this is all about. Your points may well have raised an awareness in any number of readers who have now benefited. Thank you!.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers. R+R-R=R+R Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#122872 - 08/12/04 01:02 AM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
We allow TSR accounts... yes, that is another thread!!... and sort out checks for review. We call on checks that do not meet the requirement and assess a $15 fee for the call. (We've done this for a couple of years.)
We recently started assessing a per item fee of .35 on TSR accounts for "Signature Review". Many customers changed their account to an "internal policy of 2 sigs" but bank requirement is only one signature.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#1856538 - 09/27/13 05:45 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
Anonymous
|
Gold Star
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 439
Minnesota
|
We are going to revise our account disclosures to state:“Signature Requirements: If you indicate on your signature card or other accounting opening documents that more than one (1) signature is required for withdrawal, that indication is for your own internal controls or procedures. It is not binding on us. We may pay out funds from your account if the check, item, or other withdrawal instruction is signed by any one of the persons authorized to sign on the account. We have no liability to you if we do this.”
Then sending new disclosures to the current accounts this would affect. Do we need to follow the 30 day advance notice requirement?
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#1856548 - 09/27/13 05:53 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
Banker57
|
10K Club
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
|
If you are talking about the 30 day notice requirement in Regulation DD, no. This was not a required disclosure.
Review your signature card; account terms and conditions; whatever documents might reflect the terms of your contract with the consumer. If it provides that you may unilaterally change the terms of the contract, it is likely that it would require you to give advance notice.
Either way, advance notice requirements are nothing but good manners reduced to writing.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
#1856558 - 09/27/13 06:02 PM
Re: Returning Checks Two Signatures Required
Anonymous
|
Gold Star
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 439
Minnesota
|
Would it also be a good idea to obtain new signature cards that eliminate the 2 signatures required language?
|
Return to Top
|
|
|
|
|
|