Does anyone have info. on debt elimination scams? I have several customers wanting info. on companies that will pay off there mortgage for an upfront fee of around 3000.00. I have found some warning from the board of governors of the federal reserve. Does anyone know of anyone actually getting there mortgage paid off?

The OCC issued guidance last year in the form of an Advisory Letter about how bank's should handle cases where the customer uses such reasons to avoid paying loans. See AL 2003-12 .

I'm a bit concerned about this OCC letter. It says to send a copy of the SAR to the local office of the FBI. My understanding is that if anyone, including another government agency wants a copy of a SAR, or even information about whether or not one was filed, they need to go to Treasury/FinCEN, not to the bank.

There is nothing wrong with sending a copy of the SAR to any law enforcement agency. If anything, it will speed up the process!

Instruction #6 on page 5 of the SAR specifically encourages you to provide copies of SARs to state and local authorities when appropriate. On page 4, there's also an emphasized instruction: "In situations involving violations requiring immediate attention, such as when a reportable violation is ongoing, the financial institution shall immediately notify, by telephone, appropriate law enforcement and financial institution supervisory authorities in addition to filing a timely suspicious activity report."

Has anyone had any experience with a customer who has been scammed by this type of "business"? I would REALLY be interested in knowing if this process of debt elimination has worked for anyone.

I have a customer (YIKES!) who is operating this type of "service". Scares the crap out of me and I am monitoring them like crazy. The things I have seen.....

We had an elderly male customer who was taken by this scam. A large package of official looking but untraceable and incomprehensible documents arrived purporting that the customer's mortgage constituted illegal behavior on the part of the bank, and that somehow we owed HIM the balance, rather than vice versa. I called the customer myself and told him very nicely that these are not real legal documents and he most certainly does owe us the mortgage balance plus interest on the original terms. I asked if he had paid money for this "help" and he said "money had changed hands". I offered to help him if he would tell me more about who did this, but he was very embarrassed and just wanted to hang up. I followed up with a letter reinforcing his mortgage obligation, and it hasn't even been late, so I guess he believed me, but I wished I could have gotten more information to get rid of these con men (or women). It isn't gone, as my hairdresser recently told me one of her customers was about to pay $4,000 to eliminate her mortgage. I suggested she tell the customer it was a scam.

This scam makes my stomach turn. My brother got involved in it, in spite of my stern warnings and advice to the contrary. Since it hit so close to home, I decided to learn everything I could about it.

The perpetrators of the scam are of the "Constitutionalist" mentality, many of whom also believe you don't have to pay your income taxes. They suck people in by sounding official and often having very professional websites and/or literature. They believe the Federal Reserve Bank is illegal, Federal Reserve Notes are worthless because they aren't backed by gold, etc.

They actually convince people that promissory notes, as "negotiable items", are immediately deposited by the bank into an account, thereby paying the bank back for the loan! They also get into convoluted, confusing talk about "fractionalized banking", and basically baffle 'em with bull****.

The scammers then send in false bonds to retire the debt, or file for a change of trustee on Deeds of Trust, making themselves the trustee and subsequently reconveying the debt. With the volume of work title companies do these days, some fraudulent substitute trustee forms could get filed, adding fuel to the fire and providing "documentation" of their success.

To make matters worse, the company's MO of choice is multi-level-marketing. Think of it as anti-government Amway.

My brother and sister-in-law didn't finally get out of it until the FBI literally came knocking on their door and told them to either rescind their involvement or face indictment. I don't know how the FBI got wind of their names, but I'm willing to bet their credit union filed a SAR on them. I'm grateful they did.

PM me if you want more information.

I purchased a house through foreclosure at the trustees sale where the previous owner was attempting to use the [Deleted] Groups methods. Apparently it doesn't work as well as they think it does. The previous owner and the [Deleted] Group have continued their fraudulent pursuits and the FBI has just been brought in to assist. The previous owner was evicted and charges are being filed

They don't work! Case in point: I purchased a home at the foreclosure/trustee sale auction. The [Deleted] Group were providing their so-called fool-proof methods. The home owner sure was shocked when she found her belongings on the street after the eviction. The banks and lenders are taking very aggressive actions against these home owners who don't think! Why would anyone beleive something so basically wrong and deceiving could ever work? Not only didn't this work, she's now homeless.

The FBI is very interested in these scams. It is even listed on their website as one of the most current scams to be aware of. It is listed on the website like this:

"Debt or mortgage elimination offers. The perpetrators of these schemes offer to take advantage of "loopholes in the system" that will eliminate your entire mortgage for an up-front fee. Don't believe it. There are no loopholes."

Check it out at http://www.fbi.gov/page2/dec03/fraud120803.htm

Does a scheme like that make any sense to you at all? Be realistic and use common sense. If debt elimination scams truly worked do you think banks would lend money for home purchases? These debt elimination companies are just scammers and there are a lot of people willing to pay $3000-$5000 dollars to be shown how stupid they are.

Be very careful about getting involved in the debt elimination procedures. They are scams - big time; a modern day snake oil salesman type scam. See the FBI's interest in these fraudulent scams at: http://www.fbi.gov/page2/dec03/fraud120803.htm

This is obviously a serious issue and Rebekah's post and the FBI link were very helpful. Here's a link to a December 2003 OCC advisory and a link to a 2004 FRB letter on the same subject. Until the agencies issued those pronouncements, I thought this scam went away 10 years ago. Unfortunately, a Google search on "debt elimination" gets several responses from those willing to assist consumers in this endeavor. My personal favorite is the one that has a sub-heading, "The Morality of Debt Elimination."

However, the five preceding unregistered posts are clearly from the same person. Please, assume that we "get it" and don't keep plowing the same field.

We were just introduced to this "debt relief" program by a licensed life insurance broker who came to our house to sell us life insurance. He really thinks he is doing a service to people and that it really works. Should I confront him with this information, or should I assume he is just part of the scheme?

Has anyone ever gotten their home Free and Clear using a debt elimination scam?

If you ever noticed, the perpetrators of these debt elimination schemes want "worthless" cash for their products. How much sense does that make?

Blog with lots of info including court cases where debt eliminators (monetary protesters) lost.
I face these in court and haven't lost one yet.
http://debtelimination.blogspot.com/

i agree with you all. most of these "programs" probably are scams. people getting involved in them dont know what they are doing and havnt looked at the law. i'm neither for debt elimination nor against it. i say look at the law and see what it says, from there take necessary action if applicable.

i believe in equal protection under the law, full disclosure of material facts, contract law, Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, Fair Credit Billing Act, Fair Credit Reporting Act, Unified Commercial Code, Federal Rules of Evidence, etc. the banks/debt collectors/lawyers/judges violate these laws everyday, yet we the people dont take the time to understand our rights, read the law and/or act on the law as appropriate. depending on your situation and if your rights have been violated, you may be awarded.

rwinbladus,

i assume you are a debt attorney, i invite you to share your knowledge and inform the hosts how debt elimination doesnt work.

a conference call is hosted on tuesdays and thursdays at 8pm EASTERN, 5pm PACIFIC. number is 865.362.4050, pin is 6788#.

The basic flaw in debt eliminators "militia nutcase" theory is that nothing of value was exchanged for the credit card transaction or other loan. Typically they rely upon a book called "The Creature from Jekyll Island" to support a theory that money can be created by the signing of a credit application. The root of their theory is based on notion that there is no legal currency since the US went off of the gold standard.
--Debt eliminators try to cobble together various statutes in an attempt demonstrate that the bankers have not disclosed how the money that was used for the transaction was created.
--The basic strategy of the debt eliminator is to intimidate and/or confuse their adversary and/or judges with disjointed legal theories that they cannot explain.
--Contrary to post # 284489, attorneys bankers and judges do not violate debtors rights every day.

I think you are missing something. The patriots are the ones that believe this about the money, but the ME companies just want the banks for follow FEDERAL LAW, which says they must follow GAAP and they are not at liberty to loan credit.

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The refinance is the BIG money maker for these outfits. And isn't it ironic how hungry these people are for the very money (federal reserve notes) that they claim is illegal and worthless.

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