We frequently have prospective customers come in to open accounts and we have to turn them down because ChexSystems says the SSN listed has never been issued.

It's not identity theft because they aren't impersonating anyone, they are creating new people.

On the other hand, if SAR's are sorted by Zip Code, how will anyone know this is a problem in our area if no one reports it?

Our shop is of two minds on this because they don't see it as a required filing. It's generally accepted in this community that there are many many illegal aliens in our workforce.

I used the Camel product in the Bankers Tools to see if my SSN was valid - and guess what, it isn't according to them. According to SSA they haven't reached as high as my second set of numbers go. Does this mean I won't be able to open an account with a financial institution that validates SSN??

I would feel more comfortable with this whole process if I knew how ChexSystems and other providers verify their data with Social Security Administration. We know we have a problem in this community with false IDs. According to an employee of the local funeral home, the same name, first, middle and last and exact same SSN died twice last year.

I would also like to know what the consensus is on this. We have illegal immigrents that have tried to open accounts with deceased persons social security numbers. I called the social security office only to be told they don't track that and there is nothing they can do. I should contact the police. When I contact the police they basically say that it is just a misunderstanding...these foreign people think that they need a social security number to open an account. They don't really do anything about it, except to tell them that they shouldn't do it. No one seems to care that this is going on and it is really frustrating

First of all, I don't see any way they could have obtained the SSNs legally. Also, you said that they are illegal immigrants. Perhaps it wouldbe worthwhile to try to contact the INS.

In regards to Chexsystems, they will let you know if the ss # is invalid because it belonged to a deceased person. They will not and can't tell you if the person sitting in front of you matches the ss#- only that it is a valid number and when and where it was issued. The Patriot Act addresses that we can't open an account for these individuals without proper id, but its a gray area on whether to file a sar, etc.

One would have thought that this would have been plainly addressed in the new Section 326 USA PATRIOT Act ID regs. Unfortunately, unless I missed something, they did not provide us with any suggestions as to what to do should the ID presented be invalid. However, I've taken the stance that trying to open an account with our bank with false identification documents or false/stolen tax ID numbers is an attempt to defraud our bank. There is also a new Georgia state law making it a crime to use false identification documents. We file a SAR. When ChexSystems or one of the Credit Bureaus informs us that the TIN is invalid or belongs to a dead person, we ask the customer to call the Social Security Office in our presence to validate the card and number. They will do that for the customer - just not for us at this time. The customer may also go to the Social Security Office and get a printout indicating that the card is valid. We will not open an account without verification of SSN validity. Hopefully, with the advent of the new SSN verification website that will be available to banks, the problem of false invalid alerts will decrease.

Where is this Camel tool on the BOL tools page?

From the home page Special Sections choose USA PATRIOT Act (AML)- from there select Tools. Its listed as Camel Eyes SSN Validator.

I asked an examiner whether it was necessary to file a SAR when an SSN# used to open an account came back as deceased. He said there is no need to file a SAR unless the stolen SSN# was used in a conspiracy to defraud which met the dollar thresholds set out on the SAR form. He also suggested contacting the social security administration to see if they have a program to follow up on the attempted criminal use of SS numbers.

This is a really frustrating situation and it has been news in the Washington Post for the last several days. This usually leads to something happening. Anything positive that happens in this area will be as a result of the terrorist attacks.

It appears that the government may produce a system for validating social security numbers. This seems like a good idea to me since the SSA is really the only entity that can validate numbers and match numbers to names.

The other development is concern about the matriculas consulares cards issued by Mexico. A front page story in the Post today was on the issuance of these cards withing the USA to illegals. The cards appear to make their presence here legal.

I think there will be a lot happening on this front in the near future. Stay tuned and speak up!

I can't believe all this stuff you are saying. INS would never care for only single ilegal trying to open a bank account nor the police. Our bank has 1000's and 1000's of bank account w/out social. What we tell em at first is that THEY DO NOT NEED SSN to open accounts. ITIN its an alternative, last time I had a customer who wanted to get a major credit card. Well he provided a number that started with an 9 I knew that wasnt a valid SOCIAL, so I ask him and he told me it was a ITIN, so I agreed to run the credit, and I found this Mexican guy had WAAAY better credit than me over 740, but EXPERIAN and trans said invalid SSN, who cares! 5 credit open loans? a car loan for 32,000 dollars? 2 credit cards? minimal balance? we offered him a GOlD for 5000 dollars.

It is my understanding that SSA can validate SSNs but not ITINs because ITINs are issued by the IRS--and they don't share validation files. So if you get an invalid SSN alert, take steps to determine whether the individual is an alien. (Hopefully you already know that, but just in case, double check.)

For what its worth... We, also, have had ss#'s come back not issued yet, however, in some cases, the individual has a written communication from the social security administration with them, with their number on it. We also see numbers come back as deceased. One individual has banked with us for more than 30 years, is 84, came in to open a new account and Chex Systems showed his social as deceased. He confirmed with Social Security that his number is valid and that he is not deceased.

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It's generally accepted in this community that there are many many illegal aliens in our workforce.

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A local TV station ran a spot last night on a group of activists that wants "illegal alien" categorized as a racial slur. I can see where that is going.

Doesn't INS have access to the FinCEN database? That might be one of the advantages to filing an SAR. Although I'm not sure how diligent INS will be to potentially catch one "illegal alien"....(oops, I know that is not a politically correct term anymore). The estimates are that there are 10-14 million people in the country that no one knows their identity...will INS really care about one?

ITIN cannot be verified by they always start with a number 9, and usually ends with their two last digits of their birthday, 9XX-XX-XX72 I've seen various examples here. Now ITINs are not necesary for i;egals acording to the IRS these numbers are for people living legaly here and ilegal aliens can also obtain now, although IRS has done a few changes and now ilegals can't really get a ITIN very easily.

We have thousands of customers with ITIN, we are in a area where we have diversity of hispanics espcially MExicans with their consular ID and ITIN, some of them have even purchased homes, others have credit lines up to 10K. Although we are kinda making contact with a goverment agency to be able to check other ID's like the "IFE CARD" voting card which its supposted to be hard to get in MExico if you are an ilegal. (IN MEXICO yeah) funny. Tell me stories about ITIN or procedures that other banks follow! I would like to know more information.