I just got back from Nigeria about three weeks ago. While I was there, I visited with people, including my brother-in-law, who works for Shell. I met another guy, who works for Chevron, just across the street from a Haliburton office. These are local offices of these companies all located in one small oil town called Port Harcourt. I didn't inquire about many other companies that provide services to the three I mentioned above. Did I mention I was born in Nigeria and that until last year I worked with the OCC, a division of the U.S. Treasury Department, as an Associate National Bank Examiner. I was with the OCC for three years before leaving early last year because of my two little boys - now aged 6 and 2.

I read all the threads in this forum and I am absolutely speechless. I thrilled there are people like Happygilmore. Happy was right in injecting some sense of caution because if Nanda had done what some people had in mind, the customer might still be filing court pappers against the bank for obstructing his business. It only goes to tell how important it is to know somebody before you start throwing the good apples with the few that are bad. Are there a few bad Nigerian, yes. Are there a few, if not more worse Americans, yes. Every country, including U.S. has its share of good and bad. Quite frankly, I have mixed feelings about the people that get dooped because we all know we have our share of victims here in U.S. that we don't need those scums in Nigeria making things worse for us.

Anon, to some degree you are correct. However, I suggest the problem is far larger than you have stated. It is large enough for the Central Bank of Nigeria to take out full column ads in the New York Times and other papers warning people of the fraud activity.

I know of no other country in the world that when you google search the name it returns thousands of hits about international fraudulent activity related to that country.

Nigerian fraud has been prevalent in this country for more than 30 years. It has even been labled a form of economic terrorism.

There are task forces assigned solely to investigate these frauds.

ICE actually charters planes to fly those who are arrested back to Lagos.

And as far as doing business in Nigeria, it is well known in the international community that nothing is done until a payoff is made.

So Anon, I have never met or dealt with a Nigerian who was not involved in some type of fraud scheme. We should meet so you would the first.

You are right that, most often than not, to get something done in Nigeria, you may be asked to pay something. They regard it as "kola", a gift of sorts. Instead of it being a tip you give willingly, it has become a requirement in all respects. But, Nigeria is not the only place where it is practiced. In fact, you will find some of form of kola in any third world country. By the way, if you've done any business in Washington, you know you can't get anything done unless you hire a lobbyist, who is willing to walk the congressional halls on your behalf, if you know what I mean. The same thing happens everywhere, perhaps called a different name, except that "it is what it is", as some might say.

One thing I wish I could do is to work undercover in Nigeria for the Treasury because, quite frankly, it makes me sick when I read stuff like this.

Anon, I agree but there is a difference between "kola" and having someone represent you for your cause. We have a RICO statute here. And yes, in many African countries "kola" is an accepted practice. Bribes in most civilized countries are against the law.

I dare say that if you were to work undercover in Nigeria, your life would not be worth whatever the local currency is.

So what is it that makes you sick to read?

To borrow your words, Nigerian fraud "is what it is." No?

I will welcome an opportunity to work undercover in Nigeria to thwart these kinds of fraud. However, one thing that is abundantly clear is that fraud will not succeed if you don't have accomplices (not sure of spelling), whether willing or unwilling. By that I mean, people who feel they can make a fast buck. Fraudulent activities, whether perpetrated by individuals in U.S. or in Nigeria, cannot succeed unless you have people willing to participate - who would do anything for a fast buck.

By the way, I believe Nigeria has laws against fraud so having RICO laws in U.S. does not make fraud perpetrated in U.S. any nicer or cleaner than the 419 frauds by some Nigerians.

Anon, I noticed you have avoided answering why Nigeria is tha most corrupt country in the world.

RICO is far different than 419. We too have a version of 419 that makes advance fee fraud illegal.

I dare you to find any other country in the world that when you google the name, its most referenced quality it fraud.

By your rationale, it is the people who are being suckered who are at fault in the frauds. I know of no law that makes naivete, greed, gullibility or stupidity illegal.

May Lagos needs a new sheriff...this way you will not have to work undercover.

How can the truth be offensive? I do not have to prove myself correct, the facts speak for me. If you are offended, so be it. Prove the facts wrong!

troll alert.

Would love to hear the outcome of all this. Here's my prediction... Nigerian Client buys camera after camera and pays by wire right away. Then they place a HUGE order and state that they'll wire the funds on shipment. Your client having been paid on time before will send out the product only to never receive the funds in return.

If this does happen, have the anonymous Nigerian prince posting here ask for the cameras back. I'm sure that they'll get returned promptly...

Yes, I am the Nigerian prince referred to above. There is a saying in Nigeria, which goes, "beware when you point a finger at someone, chances are you have four other fingers pointing back at you". What it boils down to is that we are quick to judge others. I certainly acknowledge there are problems in Nigeria and the fact that many of the victims are outside the borders of Nigeria. That makes it extremely difficult to acknowledge the fact that there are many victims on both sides of the border because of the actions of the few. That said, let's not forget the ills in our society. Maybe if we remove the "mask" from our face, we may actually find out what lies underneath is no different from others. Scams are equally bad regardless of where it originates or who gets hurt the most. Placing ourselves on a moral pedestal only means that we are in denial about similar problems within our own backyard.

Now Anon, here you go again. Talking about masks, why do you hide behind one using "Anon."

I think you left off a sentence to that Nigerian saying. Those four fingers pointing are saying reply to my 419 letter!

There is no question that all scams are bad no matter where they originate from.

I do thank my friends from Nigeria though for allowing me to make a decent living for many years thanks to their activities. No other country in the world has contributed so much to my investigative and fraud prevention career.

I am confident future generations will benefit too.

Look up fraud in the encyclopedia and you will see the word "Nigeria."

I do indeed sit atop a moral pedestal. And from up here the view is of legions of criminals trying to take money from those whom I protect. As Fraudman said, business is indeed good. Good for me that is. Not only have those oh so few (I'm sure it all comes from just one guy..)folks from Nigeria kept me busy, but crooks from all over give me the justification to integrate whatever technology, staff, training I need into my fraud program. Now, losses are down to half of what they were 5 years ago and my department has doubled in size in the same timeframe. I am sorry prince anony, I owe all of your subjects a sincere "Thank You".

BTW I'm selling a used Hp toner cartridge on Ebay for $68,000,000.00 USD so if you know anybody...

In banking, Nigeria sets off red flags. Honestly, I've yet to see a legitimate transaction. I talked to a woman who was engaged to a man in Nigeria....after an hour on the phone we figured out that he was a fraud. The next day, we took a loss on some US Postals from Nigeria. The next day, I caught a counterfeit which was sent from.......that's right, Nigeria.

Now, we do have quite a few bad customers right here in our town and many across the state and country, but let's look at the ratio. I have a 0% percent success rate with transactions having ANYTHING to do with Nigeria and about a 95% success rate (I made that up....I'm sure it's closer to 99%) with US transactions.

Only an idiot would ignore that to be "Politically Correct".

I hate to inject some more "Happy" thoughts, but guys, you are a bit off base.

First, I understand caution in dealing with Nigerian transactions. We see an awful lot of fraud, and on occasion, in a consumer or small business account, this will involve an initial wire that is just fine, then later, after the prey is dooped, turn into a mess. Investigating a wire to a client who has no legitimite business reason to receive a wire from Nigeria makes perfect sense.

Now then, would you take a wire from Shell Oil Company? Halliburton? ConnacoPhillips? Total? Of course you would, and all of these companies do wire funds from their Nigerian divisions to other companies all over the world. The reason they wire is because of the high level of "paper" fraud from Nigeria. None of my oil and gas clients take a cashiers check or draft from even the largest oil companies because of this fraud. Wires to pay for services are STANDARD operating practice. A look at an account with a legit reason to do business in the industry will show repeated transactions and no fraud.

The difference being, a wire, verses a cashiers check. Even Nigerian companies know the value of the wire.

It would not be anywhere outside of the spear of oil and gas exploration to need an underwater (or high pressure) camera. Off shore or on shore, there are reasons to have equipment like this. I think the investigation done was fair, but at this point, that's probably enough.

To condem all Nigerians is unfair. Caution is proper with paper transactions, but to brand every Nigerian as corrupt is very prejudice, which suprises me. 40 years ago the same statement could be said about "colored people" and not raise an eye...are we going backwards?

I know many fine engineers from Nigeria. They are hard working, honest people and they do not deserve the condemnation of our country because of the crimes of people from theirs. Placing that "caution" where it belongs is very important...I think at this point you're going way overboard to say every Nigerian is crooked. That's just sad, and wrong

By the way..."payoffs" are very common in Russia as well. It's the way business is done. All those big oil companies do it, because that's how you do business. You may not like it, but that's for Shell to worry about, not you, unless you want to back off on your oil use so they don't have to do business with these countries.

I was not branding every Nigerian as corrupt. This is RISK MANAGEMENT Dawnie, not "risk reporting". I may be in the minority here, but I am expected to aggressively engage in practices that can reduce our fraud losses. I do not watch fraud happen then report it every quarter. That said, Nigerian transactions warrant higher levels of scrutiny. Anything less is a reckless way to manage your banks and your clients accounts. To compare those actions to the civil rights of African Americans 40 years ago is not only EXTREMELY narrow-minded it is freaking insulting to me personally. Like most in my position, I sit at a PC all day long and review reports looking for problems. When investigating a case, it involves interviewing my own people or phone work. I never see faces or collect race information. My decisions and the direction I take my investigations are based on objective interpretations of case law and past experience. You came thisclose to accusing myself or Fraud Pup of racist practices. Way to throw the Russian Payoff bit as part of your non accusatory, color blind response. In your role as the CRA Queen according to your signature, does your bank deny business to persons of Russian decent since you state that the way Russian business is done always involves payoffs? Or do you file a SAR on every Slavic named person in your client database for suspicious business practices?

In case you've been asleep at the wheel up to this point, let me get you up to speed in this world...

1. People steal
2. People like me try to PREVENT the theft from happening
3. Fraud will exist until the end of time. Only by constant vigilance can you minimize incurred losses.
4. Not assigning resources based on risk puts your Bank behind the rest of the pack and in line for examiner intervention.

That is what is driving our suspicion of this wire, nothing more.

I'm going forwards here, and I got to stop typing now so I can calm down a bit…

And you think we are ready for this , Look at Wacovia and Bank of America problems stealing inforamtion

Rosco, I did not reference your comments specifically so I'm not sure why you're freaking out about the post. I completely agree that some diligence is warranted, but if you read closely you'll see that over and over again ya'll reference paper fraud from Nigeria or outgoing wire fraud. Yes there is a chance of money laundering, and the investigation because it was a first time transaction for this client makes sense. But lines like this go beyond doing your job:

Quote:

---

If it is from Nigeria, it is a fraud

tell me the last time you saw or heard of anything legitimate involving Nigeria.

customer would really have to prove to me that this is a legitimate transaction

maybe a block on the account until further investigation

So Anon, I have never met or dealt with a Nigerian who was not involved in some type of fraud scheme.

How can the truth be offensive? I do not have to prove myself correct, the facts speak for me. If you are offended, so be it. Prove the facts wrong!

Look up fraud in the encyclopedia and you will see the word "Nigeria."

---

They aren't remotely "objective" as you say.

It was the movement in this conversation from reasonable and objective review of the transaction to out and out paranoia that lead the conversation to become offensive. Those statements are close to the condemnation of an entire race of people. Think about what you're saying. Insert another race in those statements and see if you feel they're over the top.

You obviously have very little experience with the oil and gas industry. In your experience, all Nigerian transactions are fraud risk, but that's in your limited experience. I believe what Happy and I were both saying is that there are VERY large, legitimate businesses operating in Nigeria, so when doing your "objective" review, you should open your eyes to the fact that there are real reasons for receiving Nigerian wires or sending them. If you'd allow a little education to sink in, you could then take that back to your office and keep it in mind when you see a wire from Shell Oil Nigeria hit one of your clients accounts. Knowing that this company is a very legit company, who does business with US businesses, would save you and your staff many hours of work investigating this particular transaction. Isn't that what BOL is about? Sharing experiences so we all learn more.

I don't believe in my comments that I said bribes were a good or bad thing, nor something the bank should be involved in. What I said was, when making your claims of fraud in Nigeria, and throwing in the "everyone has to be bribed" lines, that you should know, this isn't an uncommon practice. That does not mean that all Nigerian or Russian connections are wrong, it's just one of those "facts" that many people who don't have connections with the industry, don't know. I wasn't condemning Russia or Russian people, I was saying, “it happens, don't fool yourself into thinking it only happens in Nigeria”.

In my "roll as CRA queen" I don't deny services to any race, sex, etc., CRA is not about race, it's about poverty and small business. You might want to pop back into training because I believe you've missed that.

I have many many years in the banking world, most of which have not been spent in CRA. I feel the standard, "let's assume if she's in CRA she's a great cheerleader, but no brain" vibe coming from you, which is too bad. While I appreciate your attempt to "bring me up to speed" it's quite mistaken. I'm pretty darned aware of what's going on.

But here are a few facts that you might want to consider:

1. Some people know more about different industry types than you do. You might want to believe you know it all, but as you can see, Happy and I have experience with a very legitimate business venture in Nigeria and we shared that with you so you could be more aware when investigating.

2. Opening your mind to that knowledge saves your bank time and money.

3. People like "you" are a value to the bank when they do their job in an OBJECTIVE and diligent manner. There is a significant difference between a healthy skepticism and outright prejudice. Skepticism is good, prejudice is costly, and of no value to the bank.

4. Not every CRA officer is an idiot. It's best not to talk to them like they are, because we're smart enough to know you're doing that. We may have experiences that enhance your position in the bank. Thank goodness my security officer feels differently than you do! Heck he’s giving classes that provide CRA service credit to the bank in our community, AND helping our small business customers avoid fraud. I Guess I'm lucky he's not spending all day checking out ConnacoPhillips wires

Dawnie, the comments you boxed are mostly mine. Let me reply them:
1. In my many years of experience, if it has been from Nigeria it was fraudulent.
2.I have never met or dalt with a Nigerian who was not involved in some fraud scheme.
3. Check out the Department of State warnings and alerts regarding Nigeria and the pamphlet you can download that describes all the fraud schemes originating from Nigeria.
4. Google any country in the world and you will find items of culture, travel etc.
5. Google Nigeria and see what you get in response.

There is a major differnce in doing business with international conglomerates than with doing business from a Nigerian or a purported Nigerian company.

The various federal investigative agencies have task forces that concentrate soley on Nigerian, West African and Russian criminal networks. There are even reports that that Nigerians are now working with the Russians.

You probably do not see many of these in the land of igloos and the midnight sun.

Lastly, not every security officer is an idiot either. Many of us, in contrast to CRA officers, come from a law enforcement background that allows us to have a clearer understanding of the law, crime and criminal activity. It is this insight that allows us to be on top of our game. This advantage is called "street smarts" rather than "book smarts."

Believe it or not I am doing on average four presentations a month to civc groups, libraries, senior clubs and other organizations that we obtain CRA service credit for.

So, the bottom line is that if you like doing business with Nigerians, please continue to do so.

Dawnie,
I get real hot real fast when race is implied as the reason for an otherwise warranted comment or action. I'll let Fraudman defend his own comments. I applaud your experience with the Oil and Gas industry but my lack of an internship at Shell or BP does not make my experience limited. Nor have I had any problems with "knowledge sinking in". Nor did I miss any CRA training, having been a compliance officer myself, it would have been faux pas (and a technical violation as well). Nor did I make any comments inferring "all CRA nad no brain". This is a security tread, keep some perspective. Race has no role here. Never has, and never will.

Before you indict me as a close minded, inexperienced, CRA hater, you should know that I too earn CRA credit for my bank. I have been a keynote speaker on these issues. I have presented and trained Law Enforcement / Government groups on Fininacial Risk Management. I have been on the street and in the back rooms. My department has many highly skilled investigators who do not spend all day pondering an Oil Company's wire transfer. Don't worry about me tying up Bank resources, we do just fine thank you.

Later gater.

Fraudman, Roscoe, and Pup,....bar is open...I'm buying. Happy, has your bank ever lost money due to Nigerian fraud? If so, were you the one who had to investigate each and every case. Have you ever had to tell a customer, I am sorry but you have become victim of a Nigerian (insert what ever scam type). Does not matter that the wire is incoming. What is the holy trinity of money laundering? Placement, Layering, Implementation. This transaction could fit into any of those three key ingredients of money laundering. This wire could be involved in a large scheme that is bigger than the banks customer or the bank itself. Point is, monitor the account. What is an "industrial" camera? Is this a product that this customer sells? Is this customer in the photo production or supply industry? If not, I would worry. Anyone who takes the stance that an incoming could not be fraud is going to take a big hit someday. Maybe not by a scam or scheme but maybe by the regulators.

The bank fraud investigators who post here deal with this daily. As Fraudman stated: If is quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, its a duck! We are charged with protecting the bottom line. Our vigilence, analytical skills, thought processes, backgrounds, etc...make us different. We do not trust anything? We do not like theives. Especially when an entire country is known to be crooked. Dont dare call us racist because we want to condemn a nation because all you ever hear about that country is fraud. Oh, Dawnie, Nigeria is a country. People from Nigeria are Nigerians. Nigerians are not a race. They are a nationality. There is only one race and it is the human race which all us belong. However, some members like to perform various types of fraud from their little country on the continent of Africa. Some of us have to try to find them and get our money back.

As for our Nigerian Anon. Why dont you register and then post so we know who you are? I have worked with Nigerians before in another industry. Guess what? They went to jail! For what you might ask? Fraud! See they got hired in a retail store and were placed running a register. You know what they did? They had a "skimmer". What did they do with this skimmer? Stole debit and credit card numbers from customers. You want to know how many Nigerian and West African college students I have busted shoplifting and trying to pass...oh get this....bad checks? Too many to count. How many bank fraud cases do I have where customers have fallen victim to a Nigerian scam. How much time do you have so I can go count?

There are too many mealey mouth people out there who do not have the guts to say what Fraudman, Pup, and Roscoe have said on this thread.

So....Now....I am ready for my 'whuppin!!!

I've read this thread over a few weeks in wonderment at the tone of some of them. Dawnie, let me just say, that your comments were fine and to the point. I agree with you on most points. And I'm a security officer. I'm not saying, don't be skeptical.. I always am. But I'm not willing to make a unilateral decision and state that all business from Nigeria is bad. Anytime I have said " all or always " I have ended up "eating crow". Chances are, we just won't hear when it happens to the guys above.

Dang.. my first posting and I forgot to sign in! That's me. :::point up at last post::::

We are all on the same team here. Some of us have had a 100% fraud rate with Nigerian dealings, some not. Some are suspicious of everything, some turn a blind eye. Fine. That's how you roll, so be it. Those of us who have used "all or always" do not look at a case with a Nigerian connection thinking that it must be Fraud. We look at it like every other case with similar attributes. When I snapped at Dawnie, I was none too pleased with the civil rights reference. Her rebuttal which seemed more bent on attacking my credentials than the topic at hand was even more inflaming. But I'm going on vac soon, so soothing waves of expectation are taking over. (chanting: aaahooom. aaahooom.)

None of us security folks here give race any consideration. We have very specific protocols depending on the nature of the case and nowhere in them will you find "determine race of individual; if suspect is ____, go to step 5."

Nigeria has heaped this extra suspicion unto itself by failing miserably in combating fraud. Dawnie, you may be reading into some of the comments here more than you should. We all work hard and have to take chances, but please please please do not think we are going backwards or operating in a prejudiced manner.

fun and sun here I come !!! Have a good weekend everybody.

Wow. This has gone a little beyond where it began months ago. Anything from Nigeria should be checked out. This is based on history. I'm not saying that it IS fraud, but I'm saying that there is a good possibility that it is. Call if "profiling" if you will, but in this business, profiling is how things are caught. When I look at transactions and see a CC with certain indicators, I make a call. Sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's fraud. Almost everytime that it is fraud, it originated in Nigeria. When I see a counterfeit Postal money order, it was most likely printed in Nigeria. There are indicators that allow us to do our job and we must not ignore them when they present themselves.

RedRaven: 1st, Welcome to BOL!! 2nd, I publicly eat crow quite often....I'm still claiming newbie status in this industry and am here more often to get advice than to give it. My tagline at one time was, "Crow is a dish best served warm."

Chopper: Thanks for the drink....I needed that today!

Rosco: Good last post. We ARE all on the same team, as you say. I end up saving more money for the banks around me than I am able to for my own, simply by picking up the phone and telling them that we're returning some checks and to cover themselves. That's teamwork.

Dawnie: You know I love you like a sister, always have (well, since I've been a BOLer anyway). You're right in that there are quite a few legit transactions from Nigeria and your point referencing the Oil industry is a good one. I don't deal too much with the Oil industry, so I just don't have that point of reference. I made the point that I've never seen a legit transaction from Nigeria and I'll stand by it. I never have. My banking and fraud experience is pretty limited, so this side of Nigeria is all I have experience with. So, I have no choice but to go with my gut and the experience that I do have. It's working well for me so far.

Fraudman and Rosco: CRA credit? Cool. I've been giving presentations about fraud recently as well. The access to the public isn't as readily available as I'd like it to be, so I love the opportunity to educate those that I would otherwise not be able to reach. It's good to know that I can apply these presentations as CRA credit on top of that. Thanks for that.

Jeremy